Bono on Christianity

[WarAngel]

Not a stalemate at all. I'm not trying to prove that everyone goes to church because it's out of habit. I'm just saying that it doesn't apply to everyone, which is doesn't.

And really, let's talk about habit. Most people go to school every day of their lives for twelve grade levels. Though that's quite a habit, how many people go on to college just out of habit? I don't know what you're going to assume, but I'm going to say close to 0%. You go to college with some intention in mind, whether it be to work towards a new career, or just party hard in a fraternity. I'm pretty sure the same kind of thing works with Church too. You don't just go to Church because it's a habit. If you find Church to be the most boring thing ever, then you're obviously not going to keep going just because you went when you were a kid.

 

[David]

And on the topic of the organized church being a bad thing, I have to disagree there for a couple of reasons.

First you say let people figure out for themselves what to believe once they choose to belive... does the same apply to our school system? Should we encourage kids to learn how to read or do basic math on their own? I don't see anything wrong with an instructional system in the church. As others have said there is a whole lot to the thing--and many Christians become eager (hungry?) to learn more.

Second the single church I attend entirely finances an orphanage in Russia among a long list of civic programs closer to home. We are a key part of the communities strategic plan for disaster preparedness (important along the northern gulf coast.) And the worldwide efforts of the Methodist denomination to which my church belongs is incredible.

Those and many many many more programs that make communities across America and around the world better, would not happen without organized religion.

 

[TMSTKSBK]

No, bzk, your logic is fallacious.

premise: able to decide for self
premise: has gone to church for a long time, may be a habit
conclusion: they did not decide on their own, and go to church due to habit.

The conclusion does not follow from the premises. No QED allowed.

 

[bzk90]

You are comparing something that is purely based on faith to something like math or science...

People NEED to know math and science to survive in this world...religion is an extra.

 

[WarAngel]

Religion is an extra to someone who doesn't understand nor believe. And the idea of habit still applies. No one goes to school (which can be extremely boring) purely out of habit, just like no one goes to church (which can be extremely boring) purely out of habit.

 

[TMSTKSBK]

bzk...you can't speak for what you don't know.
It's like a 2nd-grader saying "You can't possibly have any application for calculus".

 

[bzk90]

Religion is an extra to someone who doesn't understand nor believe. And the idea of habit still applies. No one goes to school (which can be extremely boring) purely out of habit, just like no one goes to church (which can be extremely boring) purely out of habit.

The idea of habit does NOT apply...going to school is a legal requirement.

bzk...you can't speak for what you don't know.

Believe it or not I have gone to church before...I was lucky enough to not have to endure it for any extended period of time. Between ages 5-8 I actually went to sunday school.

 

[WarAngel]

The idea of habit does NOT apply...going to school is a legal requirement.

College is not a legal requirement, and you can drop out of high school at age 16, yet most people I know who hate school still go. Is that out of habit too?

Believe it or not I have gone to church before...I was lucky enough to not have to endure it for any extended period of time. Between ages 5-8 I actually went to sunday school.

You're basing your opinions about Church and religion on what you know from when you were 5-8? Sad dude, seriously. If I based my thoughts about life from when I was little, I'd still be sitting around doing nothing but eating candy, playing in the backyard, and shitting my pants and letting my mom wipe up after me.

 

[TMSTKSBK]

But you said "I don't really know that much about Christianity, which is why I'm asking". So my 2nd grader analogy applies...
(yeah, you definitely walked right into that corner...)

 

[David]

religion is an extra.

Not to me. But that analogy has been addressed.

Would you care to address my points on the benefits of organized religion?

 

[Slayer706]

I am just going to throw this little tid-bit out there just because I think it relates somehow.

I went to a Catholic pre-school, and I remember every minute of it. The rulers (had bloody knuckles some days), the forced prayer (no snack or recess if you didn't), and everything else. Their philosophy seemed to be to beat the religion into the kids. I can't think of anyone that enjoyed being there (there might have been, but I can't remember them). It is probably the reason why I decided to delve more into religion and find something that worked for me.

Anyone else go to a religious school? I have yet to see one person survive one and still be the same religion as the school was teaching. But then again, I haven't met many that survived.

 

[bzk90]

College is not a legal requirement, and you can drop out of high school at age 16, yet most people I know who hate school still go. Is that out of habit too?

Because most people recognize the fact that if they drop out of highschool or dont go to college they will work a miserable deadend job for shit pay.

@tmstk
I guess I am at a corner.

 

[TMSTKSBK]

S'why I'm in college
Didn't want to work at Lowes Foods for 50 years..

 

[WarAngel]

Catholic schools are much different these days. There is no longer ruler beatings, forced prayer (I had three Muslim students in my grade; sometimes they would pray with us anyway if we were doing something that was very spiritually bonding), and the whole "beating religion into you" thing is gone. If anything, my experience in a Catholic school strengthened my beliefs, because I was able to understand so much more, and it was able to be layed out in ways that made sense to teenagers.

 

[WarAngel]

Because most people recognize the fact that if they drop out of highschool or dont go to college they will work a miserable deadend job for shit pay.

Right. But they still have a reason to go. It has nothing to do with habit.

 

[bzk90]

Not to me. But that analogy has been addressed.

Would you care to address my points on the benefits of organized religion?

They provide services and I will acknowledge that, even though I personaly believe that it's the goverments responsibility and not the churches to manage the evacuation/shelters for disasters. I think it's great that your church helps orphans and I have no argument against it.

 

[WarAngel]

Why does everything have to be run by the government when it could perfectly well be run by a private organization (and probably tens times as well, as we've seen from FEMA)?

 

[bzk90]

Catholic schools are much different these days. There is no longer ruler beatings, forced prayer (I had three Muslim students in my grade; sometimes they would pray with us anyway if we were doing something that was very spiritually bonding), and the whole "beating religion into you" thing is gone. If anything, my experience in a Catholic school strengthened my beliefs, because I was able to understand so much more, and it was able to be layed out in ways that made sense to teenagers.

Im sure the goverment had something to do with that...parents are barely able to beat their children let alone some priests/nuns

 

[TMSTKSBK]

Honestly it's the community's responsibility. But now I'm going to get a bunch of howling Katrina victims on me...
Parents are not allowed, and should not BE allowed to *BEAT* their children. A *spanking*, on the other hand, is certainly acceptable, and, in my view, necessary at times.

 

[Slayer706]

Because our tax dollars go to them, and we should see some benefit from them. If the government doesn't do anything for its people, what is the point in having it?