For Your Consideration

[crackrat]

So you say. But the terms "17%" "17 percent" and "seventeen" never appear on either page linked.

ow sorry it was in an earlier report from the GAO latest report was one of the links and it states 27% in federal prisons.this is the second time for this link about 6 to 8 paragraphs down.

also realize that once a state prisoner is considered to to be illegal alien in some cases they are transfered to federal prisons.

 

[TheOutkastDev]

lol. Outstanding.

 

[crackrat]

You mean for ID fraud and forgery, pursuant to their illegal immigration. You don't mean fraud of the typical type.

no one recent case in Colorado found where a group of legal and illegal aliens were selling houses for Remax to illegals by falsifying the bank documents how this was found is several local bank had issues collecting on the bank note only to find that the houses had been resold privately and that the guarantee of the bank note had disappeared. this has not helped the issue of getting a loan for a house here.

Illegals are let go from DUI's in all States that do so after the fashion that normal citizens are. They are booked and arraigned. Blah blah.

in a lot of cases that I've read about yes they are released on bail, and never return to court they vanish for several years till they are caught again. recent case in colorado there was a man whom had multiple dui's in several states it took him killing a teenage driver to finally be detained till court.

Illegal immigration can easily be shut down. We, collectively, lack the political will. Example:

Imagine there was a law on the books that stated that if I, as a business owner, could identify a competing business owner as unfairly competing with me due to the willful employment of illegal immigrants, and that should I prove my case in court I could recoup at least $100,000. Employment of illegal immigrants for things outside of yard work would cease in the US the day such a law were passed.

I fully agree with you on the statement but the method will not work as you are not allowed to state a company is using illegal workers without direct proof(which a federal law) you can be held liable if your claim is not verifiable. hence most businesses and civilians refuse to come forward.

there is a new system from homeland security that a employer can use to verify resident status unfortunately its not mandatory as of this date.

p.s. I suspect that if such a law were Federal it would likely be Unconstitutional, however that doesn't seem to stop the Feds these days, now does it?

yea i believe it might be unconstitutional and no, unfortunately nothing seems to stop at least the higher offices of our govt from doing as they please this is really the root problem of getting anything done on this issue.

 

[WarAngel]

crackrat, can you clarify exactly what you want done? I can't find your underlying point.

 

[crackrat]

@WA lol If your really read my posts you will find part of the answer you have asked for, for the rest clarification is needed as to you needs or wants of your question.

 

[WarAngel]

@WA lol If your really read my posts you will find part of the answer you have asked for, for the rest clarification is needed as to you needs or wants of your question.

Okay, let me rephrase my question. What do you want done in regards to illegal immigrants and illegal immigration?

 

[Courageous]

ow sorry it was in an earlier report from the GAO latest report was one of the links and it states 27% in federal prisons.this is the second time for this link about 6 to 8 paragraphs down.

also realize that once a state prisoner is considered to to be illegal alien in some cases they are transfered to federal prisons.

Fine. According to this same report, 49,000 federal prisoners are aliens, at a rate of 27% of federal prisons, bringing federal prison population to 181,481 by the math of the report.

State and Federal prison populations overall amount to about 1.5 million (see http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/p04.txt -->"The total number of prisoners under the jurisdiction of Federal or State adult correctional authorities was 1,496,629 at yearend 200"), leaving a total state population of prisoners at about 1.32 million, discounting those serving time in jails (not accounted for here "which excludes State and Federalprisoners in local jails").

So, as I suspected, federal prisons are taking it over the barrel here, holding aliens on federal-based crimes (illegal immigration being by far the obvious explanation), whereas those who commit state based crimes and held for local sentencing amounting to a mere 4% of the total population in the States.

Now. The illegal immigrant population in the US is estimated to be over 8 million. If you believe this figure to be approximately true, you can use information herein calculated to compare-contrast the rate of incarceration of illegal immigrants to current residents.

I suggest you not bother. I just did the wag in my head. Once you factor out illegal immigration itself as a crime and consider only other crimes committed by illegal immigrants, what you are going to find is that illegal immigrants commit crimes significantly less often than natives.

Subjectively, this jibes well with my understanding of the worker immigrant. They come here because they regard us as an opportunity, and they' would like to stay if they could.

C//

 

[shrundowr]

ya, they'd try and keep a low profile cuz they know theyre breaking the law just by being here. Most of em are prolly too scared to even jaywalk.

 

[shrundowr]

Also:

The percentage of all federal prisoners who are criminal aliens has remained the same over the last 3 years--about 27 percent.

However:

Definitions of Terms Used in This Report:

Term: Criminal aliens;
Definition: Noncitizens who are residing in the United States legally or illegally and convicted of a crime.

so thats not counting just border hoppers, thats counting visas, green cards etc.

 

[crackrat]

well i had answered that but...

foremost... govt accountability.... I would like the govt to at least try to follow our current laws in regards to illegal immigration. heck just following our current laws would be a breath of fresh air. I would think that both homeland security and ICE should start following our laws instead of requesting new ones that make no sence . it does not send out a great message to the citizens of the U.S. seeing our own govt loopholing at every corner.

Along with govt accountability for current laws I would think that accountability towards funds for such things as the currently promised wall(remember the 700 mile wall). the money for that project has already been spent on something else and no one can seem to say what it was spent on. I realize that a wall itself will not stop the current problem but living in a country that protects so many foreign borders it would be at least a nice start to the protection of our own country. Govt accountability also would cover the issues of the trilateral treaties currently signed by the executive branch. decisions such as these should at least have the average Americans voice noted and because of their current handling, accountability is really needed .

my second point goes hand in hand with my first enforcement. enforcement at a corporate level would be a first as really there is very little to nothing being done to companies supplying the work. most cases this work is effecting the lives of Americans. secondly start fining the banks and other corporate entities that are selling services to illegals. sorry it still irks me off that my last bank would require my social security number for any transaction i might have to make and yet allow the use of an id given by a foreign consulate for anyone that is illegally here. also ignoring the fact that an illegal is just that here illegally and letting possible flight risks go knowing they will run and disappear. not good law enforcement. letting state system play a more active role in apprehension of criminal illegals is needed as well.

my personal belief is that no new law can possibly be enforced or enacted until these items are addressed.only after these things are done and done well ,then we do need to take an objective look look at the current immigration system. once we start looking at our govt systems the numbers and facts of this issue would need to be addressed. in 1962-63 president kennedy opened up the numbers for legal immigration and it was once again opened by presidents Regan, Bush senior, and Clinton. The effects of just our current legal immigration need to be addressed before adding to it again.

now on to the American people "WAKE THE HELL UP" instead of thinking there is nothing that can be done, realize that there isn't anything being done. Our govt and corporations deem it that way. darn shame when the average American cannot either be bothered to at least educate themselves to what their govt is doing, especially those that may be thinking of voting. Real shame when the average American is either too scared or cant be bothered to voice their opinion or their feelings on an issue so dear to their country and their own lives. if you really read the links i have posted and not just scan them i would hope that it might cause at least some rise of patriotism and intelligence on this issue.

 

[Courageous]

my second point goes hand in hand with my first enforcement. enforcement at a corporate level ...

I doubt very much that most employment of illegals is "corporate," as in big corporations, but rather strongly suspect that the employment of illegals is principally the activity of small business.

fining the banks and other corporate entities that are selling services to illegals

Illegals and "cash business" are almost synonymous, I am rock-solid sure of this.

letting state system play a more active role in apprehension of criminal illegals is needed as well.

Letting?

The states and cities aren't particularly interested.

...now on to the American people "WAKE THE HELL UP"

Have you seen Congressional approval ratings lately? People are cluing in.

if you really read the links i have posted and not just scan them i would hope that it might cause at least some rise of patriotism and intelligence on this issue.

Well. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics, as they say.

Statistics have been previously mentioned in this thread in such a fashion as to imply that we ought to conclude that illegal aliens were of particular criminal bent. Not only were the outright numbers quoted not even remotely true, it would appear that the sources may show that illegal aliens are more law abiding than natives.

This is not to say that Americans shouldn't have a system of immigration that they want. Each country has the right to its own culture identity and the rate at which individuals enter the country and therefore permute the culture.

Be that as it may, one may wish to consider that this country is a country of immigrants. Immigration is itself a strong part of our heritage.

C//

 

[TheOutkastDev]

I doubt very much that most employment of illegals is "corporate," as in big corporations, but rather strongly suspect that the employment of illegals is principally the activity of small business.

Wal-Mart stores in 21 states were raided by Federal agents for using undocumented immigrants.

 

[TMSTKSBK]

Tyson has been raided a few times >_>...

 

[crackrat]

I doubt very much that most employment of illegals is "corporate," as in big corporations, but rather strongly suspect that the employment of illegals is principally the activity of small business.

lol ever hear of Swift,Cintas or Mcdonalds (the list can go on). all have been fined or raided in the past and all most likely should be again. but yea i do agree that enforcement should also nail small businesses for non compliance.
recent study (cant remember which one so i wont completely quote) actually had the U.S. goverment as the number one employer lol.

while we are at it please have someone look into how boing is producing military aircraft parts both over seas and in South America this a direct violation of every DOD contract I've ever worked around, with 25 years as primarily a aerospace machinist i have been under one form of govt classification or another much of that time. also this is effecting my wage as well as my livelyhood

Illegals and "cash business" are almost synonymous, I am rock-solid sure of this.

while a lot of businesses do pay by the note instead of by a check to avoid easy detection. there are companies that pay by check Acompany that i worked at for 8 days is a prime example in my mind over half of the machinshop staff was illegal by their own admission. if in doubt try driving to a USBank, Bank of America, Wellsfargo, and many other subsideraries. they are taking Mexican consulate cards as proof to get an account at least in my city.

Have you seen Congressional approval ratings lately? People are cluing in.

yes actually I have, kinda refreshing for a problem that I've been following since Regan.

Well. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics, as they say.

Statistics have been previously mentioned in this thread in such a fashion as to imply that we ought to conclude that illegal aliens were of particular criminal bent. Not only were the outright numbers quoted not even remotely true, it would appear that the sources may show that illegal aliens are more law abiding than natives.

This is not to say that Americans shouldn't have a system of immigration that they want. Each country has the right to its own culture identity and the rate at which individuals enter the country and therefore permute the culture.

Be that as it may, one may wish to consider that this country is a country of immigrants. Immigration is itself a strong part of our heritage.

C//

lol personally i had never done anything but deliver some numbers as stated by the GAO. how others might interpret them is where this misunderstanding has arisen. I will not argue the numbers or the fact that illegals on the surface have less crime at least not till you add in the various sanctuary cities handling of illegals and their detainment for minor felonies and misdemeanors. The figuires you keep arguing also don't seem to take into effect that 7-10-12-20 million people have one thing in common, the fact that they all have knowingly broken a law to be here. This is not a failing of the immigration system so much as an failing of law enforcement and our govt to acknowledge that there even is a problem. given that we already have most likely the most liberal immigration system in the world, as well as a system more liberal than their own countries immigration system i will say it does point as an indicator to general nature of these illegals in question. 'shrugs' remember it is not a right of the foreign born to live in America, it is a privilege for those who have done the right things and followed the right process.

 

[shrundowr]

Tyson has been raided a few times >_>...

See what I mean?

 

[TMSTKSBK]

You said something that had MEANING?!
(What was it?)

 

[shrundowr]

oh haha very funny. Now instant of distracting people from you being wrong, you make a joke instead.

 

[TMSTKSBK]

No, what did you say? I ignored all the haters for the last page and a half.

 

[WarAngel]

No, what did you say? I ignored all the haters for the last page and a half.

He's talking about that fact that you were dead wrong. on the 25% of the prison population being illegal immigrants and are now just trying to ignore the fact that you were by distracting us, despite being called out on it multiple times.

 

[shrundowr]

haters? wow lame.

and your outrageous claim about 25% of jail inmates being illegals who have commited crimes besides sneaking in the country. Which you failed to back up, and others have privided sources to the contrary.