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Merry Christmas

Gandy897

Wanderer
Merry Christmas!!!!!!! Im glad i got that in before midnigtht lol .. Happy and healthy to all of you and your families.
 

AdminVile

Sorceror
i Hope everyone had a merry christmas and a happy new year.


One thing that gets me though is how a simple statement by Ryan and a good wishes for the holidays can get turned into a political and religous debate like this thread did. Those that dont believe in christmas YOU were not required to read this thread. There was nothing that made your Browsers come to this thread. Some of you people take a simple gesture of kindness and turn it into the most disheartning thing you possably can. Then you sit there and ask "When is the next release going to be published? When are we going to get this? When are we going to get that?"

Reading some of the comments in this thread i can understand why the runuo dev team gets frustrated and doesnt give you guys what ya want.

On a side note (for those who care) I wish you and yours a happy holidays and hope the coming year finds you all in good health and spirits.

And to the dev team thank you for another year of hardwork
 

TMSTKSBK

Lord
Ok...let's get some stuff straight:

1. Christianity doesn't have a "place" to pray. Anywhere works. Thus, school is just as appropriate a place as a church.

2. Prayer should be allowed in school because you are restricting my free speech if you do not allow it. Obviously, I should not be disrupting the peace, but if I am not, then I should do whatever I feel like doing. You probably won't notice when I'm praying.

3. How dare you criticize this person's choice to educate their child as they see fit? What you are saying boils down to "Your point of view is wrong and it instigates separation." Maybe this person wishes to show their child what they believe to be the truth, while their child enjoys the full ability to pray, and otherwise exercise their religion as necessary, without the interference of the state in church affairs (separation, no? ;)).

4. Your "large population" of people wanting "under God" removed from the Pledge...is about...1% of Americans. That's...not...large. It largely corresponds to the number of unreligious people in America. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. But the majority is entitled to its opinion also. It is not yours.

5. For full disclosure, I was homeschooled. I am conservative. I am Christian. And this is ridiculous.

(oh yah...1360 on the SAT...when it was based on 1600)
 

joshw

Sorceror
A_Li_N said:
And I believe that the idea behind that whole movement was the simple fact that a public school is ran by the government, and we are suposed to have church and state seperate.

Here is where you are wrong no where in the constitution does it say church and state are to be seperate it clearly states that the goverment is not to setup a state church institution this was written so that not another church of england could be set up. As far as removing certain phrases from the pledge and everything else this country was founded upon christan beliefs like it or not. But was clear enough to allow freedom of religon if someone doesnt want to say the pledge because of the word god they they shouldnt have to but to remove the phase is pure ridiculous.

here is what they are

Amendment I - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

tell me where it says the seperation of church and state

here is another tidbit of information

When the First Amendment was passed it only had two purposes.

There would be no established, national church for the united thirteen states. To say it another way: there would be no "Church of the United States." The government is prohibited from setting up a state religion, such as Britain has, but no barriers will be erected against the practice of any religion. Thomas Jefferson's famous "wall of separation" between church and state comment was made in a letter to a group of Baptist clergymen January 1, 1802 in Danbury, Connecticut, who feared the Congregationalists Church would become the state-sponsored religion. Jefferson assured the Danbury Baptist Association that the First Amendment guaranteed that there would be no establishment of any one denomination over another. It was never intended for our governing bodies to be "separated" from Christianity and its principles. The "wall" was understood as one directional; its purpose was to protect the church from the state. The world was not to corrupt the church, yet the church was free to teach the people Biblical values. It keeps the government from running the church but makes sure that Christian principles will always stay in government.
The second purpose of the First Amendment was the very opposite from what is being made of it today. It states expressly that government should not impede or interfere with the free practice of religion. The purpose of the separation of church and state in American society is not to exclude the voice of religion from public debate, but to provide a context of religious freedom where the insights of each religious tradition can be set forth and tested. As Justice Douglas wrote for the majority of the Supreme Court in the United States vs. Ballard case in 1944: The First Amendment has a dual aspect. It not only "forestalls compulsion by law of the acceptance of any creed or the practice of any form of worship" but also "safeguards the free exercise of the chosen form of religion." The First Amendment was a safe-guard so that the State can have no jurisdiction over the Church. Its purpose was to protect the Church, not to disestablish it.

anyways Merry Christmas
 

A_Li_N

Knight
An argument is an uninformed debate...And on my part, this is probably the case. I apologize to any and all that I might have offended. I am not very informed about these things, but tend to speak my mind on what little I have heard. Maybe the mods would allow a debate thread to be started so we can take this out of the merry christmas thread?
 

TMSTKSBK

Lord
For my part, I'm sorry if I sounded rawr-ful, A_Li_N...it's just that you hit a nerve :-\. No offense meant, though...
 

Ankron

Wanderer
joshw said:
... The First Amendment was a safe-guard so that the State can have no jurisdiction over the Church. Its purpose was to protect the Church, not to disestablish it.

Well said my friend
 
I don't have any problem with any religion as long as it's not forced on others and as long as the followers of it are tolerant to others. I myself believe in God, just not in the traditional sense, and I'm not a part of any religious organisation or movement.

That said, I DO have a big problem with the whole Pledge in general. To me as an outsider, it reeks of indoctrination and brainwashing. I compare it to the propaganda tools and the contracts that students in Soviet Russia had to sign, in which they declared their loyalty to the Party.

In my opinion, it's disgusting to let young people pledge their allegiance every day. They do not even understand fully what it means. People under 18 aren't allowed to sign most contracts, but they are forced to 'sell their soul to America'? That makes no sense.

By the way, what exactly happens if you do not take the Pledge?

I realize I don't make myself very popular with this, but I just want it said, as it has been bothering me for a long time.
 

WarAngel

Wanderer
As an outsider, you would not understand what it means to be an American.

I'm not going to attempt to even explain this, and I don't care if I'm flamed for it.
 

joshw

Sorceror
Ankhesentapemkah said:
I don't have any problem with any religion as long as it's not forced on others and as long as the followers of it are tolerant to others. I myself believe in God, just not in the traditional sense, and I'm not a part of any religious organisation or movement.

That said, I DO have a big problem with the whole Pledge in general. To me as an outsider, it reeks of indoctrination and brainwashing. I compare it to the propaganda tools and the contracts that students in Soviet Russia had to sign, in which they declared their loyalty to the Party.

In my opinion, it's disgusting to let young people pledge their allegiance every day. They do not even understand fully what it means. People under 18 aren't allowed to sign most contracts, but they are forced to 'sell their soul to America'? That makes no sense.

By the way, what exactly happens if you do not take the Pledge?

I realize I don't make myself very popular with this, but I just want it said, as it has been bothering me for a long time.

The pledge was established to basically inform young people of what the US stands for not to have there undying devotion but to inform them that the nation was determined to stand for justice and equal rights to all. It wasnt meant to have the children of this nation actually pledge the devotion to the country but to inform them of the morals and beliefs. And nothing will happen to a child for not saying the pledge having two young kids myself who are in grade school there is no punishment for not saying the pledge. The problem is that we as a nation are loosing our rights to a politicly correct special intrest groups
 

Maynza

Formerly DontdroptheSOAD
I have a problem with my little brother being forced to pray before his lunch at school. (public school)
 

sidsid

Sorceror
DontdroptheSOAD said:
I have a problem with my little brother being forced to pray before his lunch at school. (public school)

Instead of having a problem with that, you could just be thankful he isnt forced to watch while his mother/sisters are raped and beaten and his father/brothers are castrated and murdered. Glad that he gets a sort of mediocre (public) education. Ecstatic that he can decide what to do with his own life once he ages a bit.
 

TMSTKSBK

Lord
DontdroptheSOAD said:
I have a problem with my little brother being forced to pray before his lunch at school. (public school)

Tell him to stop. No one should force him. If someone does, sue them for religious discrimination.
 
WarAngel said:
As an outsider, you would not understand what it means to be an American.

I'm not going to attempt to even explain this, and I don't care if I'm flamed for it.
Well if you're not going to explain it, then what use is it to post it?

Also, please be aware that the popularity of the United States is currently, well, not good. Especially with all the scandals and bloodshed in Iraq and the general warmongering nature of the current administration, and the doubts that are still there with the official explanation for 9/11, which is so full of flaws and errors that we wonder why your media aren't giving any attention to it at all.
http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php
Pentagon problems in a humorous nutshell.

And now the voting machine scandal, where a Finnish security agency has managed to hack a voting machine and manipulate the results without leaving any trace, and the fact that Diebold had a guide on their own FTP site how to tamper with the machines to rig the results. And the significant differences between exit-polls and end-results in certain places, as well as downright wrong results from certain machines (more votes in the machine then there were people in the city!) shows that there must have been tampered during the last elections. But that didn't show up in your media either.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm
http://www.verifiedvotingfoundation.org/article.php?id=5797
Articles.

I'm not wanting to sound like another conspiracy nutjob. But when analyzing the evidence in a logical fashion, one cannot escape the conclusion that something very bad is going on.
 

Joeku

Lord
Something bad is always going on. All nations have problems, it's a fact. It's human nature to cause problems. Someone please lock this thread now, its getting out of hand.
 
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