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Tired of whiners on privacy infiltration...

99Bananas

Wanderer
well said

HellRazor;710109 said:
I agree. You have a lot more to fear from your elected officials in Washington D.C. than you do from the average Soldier.

Soldiers on average are just people, mostly patriotic ones, who are trying to do a good job for America and to do the right things.

The Armed Forces are one of the few professions in the U.S. who are required to undergo regular training in the areas of ethics, equal opportunity, sexual harrassment, etc. For the Army, the Army Values are a part of our creed.

Are there bad apples? Sure, there are bound to be a few. But they are the extreme minority.

Ask yourself this. What generates more hits for a news site, pictures and stories about the thousands of average Soldiers doing their job and providing day-to-day security in Iraq? Or the one or two assholes caught abusing their power or making a boneheaded decision?
i like your post here, i still live by the 7 Army values even though i'm no longer
active duty. but i have noticed that as of late the Army has REALLY lowered its standards and the quality of soldiers that are graduating BCT has gone way down hill, there has always been afew boneheads here and there but it seems the number is increasing. there is a quote that i really liked that the Fsgt of the 626 used to say and i think it speaks for alot of people...
"If you won't take action, you have no right to complain about the actions taken." i think that sums it all up, Hooahh
 

WarAngel

Wanderer
99Bananas;710117 said:
"If you won't take action, you have no right to complain about the actions taken." i think that sums it all up, Hooahh

That isn't a fair way to sum it up. The American people don't serve the Army, the Army serves the American people. As such, it's our discretion as to how the army goes. If suddenly every American citizen became anti-army and anti-war, and we elected all anti-army representatives, I somehow don't think the Army would be doing doing a whole lot. That summation is true for military juntas, but we are hopefully not run by one of those.
 

HellRazor

Knight
WarAngel;710121 said:
That isn't a fair way to sum it up. The American people don't serve the Army, the Army serves the American people. As such, it's our discretion as to how the army goes. If suddenly every American citizen became anti-army and anti-war, and we elected all anti-army representatives, I somehow don't think the Army would be doing doing a whole lot. That summation is true for military juntas, but we are hopefully not run by one of those.

Absolutely right. In fact one of the basic tenets of the Armed Forces is that they are subject to civilian authority.

This was actually nearly undone early in the formulative days our country's history, if not for the wisdom of George Washington. The following is from the Army's Field Manual 1.

Following victory at Yorktown in 1781, the Continental Army moved into quarters near Newburgh, New York, to await peace. The national situation was grim. The Continental Congress could not raise the funds to provide pay or pensions to the Soldiers, some of whom had not been paid for several years. Many officers feared that Congress would disband the Army and renege on its promises. By the winter of 1782–83, tension had reached a dangerous level. The future of the Republic was in doubt.

A group of officers determined to use the threat of military action to compel Congress to settle its debts. They attempted to enlist their commander, General George Washington, to lead the plot. He refused every appeal, and the rebellious officers prepared to act without him. On 15 March 1783, Washington entered an officers assembly and warned them of the grave danger inherent in their scheme. He was having little effect until he took a pair of spectacles from his pocket to read.

The officers were astonished. None of them had seen their hero in his eyeglasses. Washington seemed to age before them. But an offhand comment demonstrated the depth of character that had sustained a revolution: “Gentlemen, you will permit me to put on my spectacles, for I have not only grown gray, but almost blind, in the service of my country.” The act, the statement, and the power of a leader’s example quelled an incipient rebellion.

Washington’s selfless leadership and willing subordination instituted the tradition of civilian control of the military—a fundamental tenet of the American military profession.

Washington's speech to the officers can be found here:

Rediscovering George Washington . Milestones: Read the Speech to Officers at Newburgh | PBS

More on the topic:

Civilian control of the military - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

HellRazor

Knight
99Bananas;710117 said:
but i have noticed that as of late the Army has REALLY lowered its standards and the quality of soldiers that are graduating BCT has gone way down hill, there has always been afew boneheads here and there but it seems the number is increasing.

I don't agree with that. I don't think any of the requirements to graduate basic training have gotten easier since 9-11. If anything, the training has gotten tougher because our drills know that these fresh new troops might be pulling security in Iraq in a few months.

Recruitment standards have probably dropped some. I imagine they are allowing more non-high school graduates in. Also probably allowing more waivers for minor criminal offenses. I know they changed the maximum age for enlistment a few years ago. Like it or not, it's an all volunteer Army and to maintain strength in a time of war, sometime you need to take acceptable risks, especially if the alternative is a draft (which nobody wants).

Also, the Armed Forces are in the midst of great change while at war. Our former doctrine was designed for the cold war. The new terrorist threat requires an entirely new way of thinking. The answers can't all be found in a textbook anymore.
 

Courageous

Wanderer
HellRazor;710109 said:
Ask yourself this. What generates more hits for a news site, pictures and stories about the thousands of average Soldiers doing their job and providing day-to-day security in Iraq? Or the one or two assholes caught abusing their power or making a boneheaded decision?

I have no difficulty with this. Take a bunch of boys, train them to kill people, and send them into a situation where a lot of people want to kill them, and people are going to crack. It's just bound to happen, a normal manifestation of war, nothing to see here, move along, move along.

Issue is WTF we're there in the first place. Different subject, different day.

C//
 
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