In my opinion lower cost government health care could be obtainable if there was more restrictions for minors who get SSI .And people who dont have social security credits paid in and are on SSI. I have met a few people in my life who's children draw SSI and get 500 - 600$ per month besides what their parents get and insurance coverage. I honestly see no need for a "child" to receive a living wage. Health care yes but living wage no. The federal medicare and state medicaid programs are being abused by the lazy ass people who assume everyone owes them a way through life. Its just my opinion and I am sure a lot will disagree with it . But I believe if that 500-600$ in SSI thats going to the hundreds of thousands of minors was instead used to help subsidize insurance programs . It might be more obtainable for the lower middle class to afford.
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Who's Your Candidate
- Thread starter TheOutkastDev
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What good welfare was to the society?
It needed reforming this is true. It wasn't a "magic bullet" but to believe that it was worthless might just mean you or someone close to you would not be here because their grandparents would of died if there had been no help.
To all those against such things as welfare and health care for all. I hope you never have to face what it's like to be in poverty in America or anywhere else. I wish no one had to. But the world just does not work like that.
From what I gather the main argument against this idea is "DO NOT INCREASE MY TAXES, IT'S MY MONEY!!!" This is an understandable view point. But I am betting that most of those tax dollars people are losing are not going to things like health care, education, welfare, etc.
Take just one minute to think of something here. IF the poor was getting all this great wealth from welfare, would they still be poor and hungry? Logically, they shouldn't be. I mean why would they be struggling so much?
Is it just because they "gang-bang" or are "lazy and playing computer games"?
Is it really that simple?
If all the poor have to do is stop doing drugs (because the rich just don't do that kind of thing) or raping the neighborhood. Maybe get up from their computer desk they could all live this great life.
The majority of the poverty stricken people, do not live like that. Any more than the middle class all have yachts and the richest all shit in a toilets made of gold.
But I digress we will not agree on this point and can talk it out until we are blue in the face. Politics can get pretty tiresome. All the different points of view won't matter until those ballets are in the box and counted. It is too early for me to want to choose a Candidate until all the smoke has cleared and there are but two main parties and some independent parties standing before us and we vote on the one we all like the best. Until then it's all on the drawing board and all these great ideas and bad ideas from all sides will not matter in the least. They will only be crinkled paper around a disregarded dustbin.
HellRazor
Knight
I have a sister-in-law who is all but disabled. She is mostly confined to a chair where she has to piss in a towel because her medical condition precludes bladder control and she doesn't have a catheter. She also has psorisis over her entire body and to top it off, she is diabetic.
She is lucky enough to have a house to live in for now which is really someone else's house so it won't be there forever. She has no ability to earn income. She had a bad marriage which left her without a husband and 2 kids to raise, which she fortunately was able to do. Being poor and disadvantaged, with hardships and medical issues and being from a broken home, things went predictably - one kid turned out great and joined the military, the other fell into a bad crowd, drugs, and is probably on the road to being a career criminal. (Basically symbolizing the 2 career options that are most accessable to kids growing up in poverty).
But back to my sister-in-law. What happens to a person like that, who has a lot of medical issues, no health care, no ability to earn money, and she is basically living at someone else's whim since she doesn't have a home of her own?
There are some people who abuse welfare, and there are some who would abuse any health care program. And then there are some like my sister-in-law who is basically a good person in a bad situation who refuses to take welfare even though she is surely qualified for it.
Health care should be available to someone in that situation and it isn't, and because it isn't, she is very likley to die at a young age because she can't afford proper treatment for her problems.
She is lucky enough to have a house to live in for now which is really someone else's house so it won't be there forever. She has no ability to earn income. She had a bad marriage which left her without a husband and 2 kids to raise, which she fortunately was able to do. Being poor and disadvantaged, with hardships and medical issues and being from a broken home, things went predictably - one kid turned out great and joined the military, the other fell into a bad crowd, drugs, and is probably on the road to being a career criminal. (Basically symbolizing the 2 career options that are most accessable to kids growing up in poverty).
But back to my sister-in-law. What happens to a person like that, who has a lot of medical issues, no health care, no ability to earn money, and she is basically living at someone else's whim since she doesn't have a home of her own?
There are some people who abuse welfare, and there are some who would abuse any health care program. And then there are some like my sister-in-law who is basically a good person in a bad situation who refuses to take welfare even though she is surely qualified for it.
Health care should be available to someone in that situation and it isn't, and because it isn't, she is very likley to die at a young age because she can't afford proper treatment for her problems.
TMSTKSBK
Lord
People that think "welfare" or "social security" or any of the other social programs are the best way to do things are naive idiots.
Sure, there'd be a lot of people left high and dry if they were removed. Some people close to me, even.
It doesn't matter.
Remove the taxation on EVERYONE for all these social programs, and guess what...people are able to afford to care for one another!
Will they? Not all of them. Not even most of them. Most of them will be greedy bastards and hoard their money for themselves.
But not all of them will be greedy bastards, either. Much like Ryan, they'll give a portion of their money to help those less fortunate than themselves.
Secondly, people will be forced to be more fiscally responsible for their own future. Which is great. It's absurd to give a portion of your money to some giant corporation (read US Government) and expect them to pay you back later.
Why not stick it in the bank? Even at 2.5% interest, over fifty years, that's a significant amount of money.
Basically, welfare, medicare/medicaid, social security, and all those other giant social programs are a massive waste of resources, time, and energy. Let's just abolish them and get back to minding our own business.
Sure, there'd be a lot of people left high and dry if they were removed. Some people close to me, even.
It doesn't matter.
Remove the taxation on EVERYONE for all these social programs, and guess what...people are able to afford to care for one another!
Will they? Not all of them. Not even most of them. Most of them will be greedy bastards and hoard their money for themselves.
But not all of them will be greedy bastards, either. Much like Ryan, they'll give a portion of their money to help those less fortunate than themselves.
Secondly, people will be forced to be more fiscally responsible for their own future. Which is great. It's absurd to give a portion of your money to some giant corporation (read US Government) and expect them to pay you back later.
Why not stick it in the bank? Even at 2.5% interest, over fifty years, that's a significant amount of money.
Basically, welfare, medicare/medicaid, social security, and all those other giant social programs are a massive waste of resources, time, and energy. Let's just abolish them and get back to minding our own business.
HellRazor;717709 said:
Im not saying that people who deserve the help shouldnt get it. I am saying there needs imho to be more guide lines for who does and who doesnt. Some of people you see who claim to be disabled and get assistance are more than likely a lot more healthy than you or I. And since I moved back to a small town where things are more open. I am noticing a lot of low class trash abusing this system and their abuse is keeping people who really need it from having a chance to get it./ Because they have the disability courts backlogged with appeal after appeal etc.
TMSTKSBK;717713 said:
The main misconception I see is the assumption that it easy to get on welfare and social security. And that these programs give so much to live on for undeserving people. That the poor people and organizations that help them are what is causing the high tax increase.
There are some rotten apples that clouded and fuck the system for personal greedy gain. But I wonder what the actual percentage are that do that. You hear of the bastards on the news, but you don't hear about the ones like Hellrazors sister-in-law.
TMSTKSBK
Lord
Rosetta;717718 said:
No.
Nothing to do with anything.
I don't care about whether or not the programs are corrupt, I just want them abolished. Some people on the programs are "rightfully" there. As in they honestly qualify for the benefits the program is offering.
Good for them.
Unfortunately, I want the entire thing to disappear, whether or not they're on the program legitimately.
It's not a question of whether or not the program is corrupted, it's a question of whether or not the program should EXIST in the first place.
HellRazor
Knight
A good part of the rest of the world considers citizens of the U.S. to be boorish, uncultured, selfish, arrogant, fat, greedy pigs who only care about themselves.
When I read about how little many people care for their fellow human beings, sometimes I wonder if they are right.
If people don't give enough of a rat's ass to shell out a few dollars in taxes for social programs that benefit needy people, what makes you possibly believe that they will care enough to help these people in the absence of these programs?
The simple truth is a lot of people have NO ONE and depend on these programs to SIMPLY SURVIVE.
I sure hope none of you are ever in a position to where you need help. If you had to live a few days in the shoes of some of these folks you wouldn't be so smug and selfish about it.
When I read about how little many people care for their fellow human beings, sometimes I wonder if they are right.
If people don't give enough of a rat's ass to shell out a few dollars in taxes for social programs that benefit needy people, what makes you possibly believe that they will care enough to help these people in the absence of these programs?
The simple truth is a lot of people have NO ONE and depend on these programs to SIMPLY SURVIVE.
I sure hope none of you are ever in a position to where you need help. If you had to live a few days in the shoes of some of these folks you wouldn't be so smug and selfish about it.
TMSTKSBK;717723 said:
It's all about ideals. Who cares if the programs actually do a good job or if people need them or if it's actually cheaper than a private solution in nearly every way, if it's ideologically incorrect? *sigh*
And that's my problem with Libertarians. They have a lot of ideas that sound great ideologically, but realistically, they really don't solve much of anything.
Johabius
Knight
people that think welfare or social security being abolished is going to cure this country's woes are insensitive douchebags.TMSTKSBK;717713 said:
So is the war machine in IRAQ, let's get back to minding our own business. I don't want MY MONEY going to fund a war machine that I don't agree with. Anyone else realize how stupid that sounds? By all means keep seeing the world in black and white.
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