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Why I hate RunUO

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Why I hate RunUO

I have been a member of the RunUO community since September of 2002. I have seen this community grow and become the largest in the UO Emulation genre. Many people whom I consider friends are people I’ve met here at RunUO. This community has become sort of a haven for me, a place where I can come together and participate in an intellectual hobby that requires problem solving, abstract thinking, and teamwork. In fact, until I delved into programming in order to use RunUO, I never considered programming as a lifelong job. I am now earning a Bachelor’s of Science in Computer Science from Baylor University. RunUO has undoubtedly been a positive influence in my life.

That is why it saddens me to see this community in the state that it is in. I look around these forums, and I see a complete desecration of what this community used to stand for. It used to be a place where people could learn C# AND RunUO concepts and designs, as well as different implementations, and of course fixing buggy implementations. What has it become now? It is nothing but a short-tempered, critical, impatient community of egotistical pricks who have nothing better to do than belittle users whom are perceived as intellectual inferiors. Catch phrases such as “do a search, <insert variation of noob>,” and “learn C#” have become omnipresent. Do a search for something basic such as, “do a search” and look at those threads that come up. The number of results that return is unacceptable. Since when has repeating an answer or re-explaining a concept become a bad thing?

This community has become a massive cesspool of “l33t scripters” who’s infinite wisdom and “sk3llz” have lead to a holier than thou attitude that repels new users with a rapidity that can only be mimicked by a machine gun. Remember when Courageous made a suggestion for defining named constants for Clilocs numbers? How many people in that thread insulted his intelligence? How many users provoked him to “brag” (as it was labeled so in the thread by several users) about his credentials?

I remember when someone could ask for help making a timer. The response that user got was actual code, an example. Now all users get is a brief, overly vague statement such as “look at script <insert script name here>” or “create a timer and make it do the work.” These kinds of half assed answers are evidence of the digression of this community to the point where it is simply sickening.

And of course, we have those radical users whom believe that because of their join date, they are above and beyond the rules. People like Phantom/Seanchen.net/Jason. We all know this individual. He needs no introduction, but what he does need is an attitude adjustment, or removal from the community. He has single handedly started more fights with users than half the community combined. Why? Is it because his “answers” make users think? No. Only those who are blinded by the legacy of Phantom as a member of this community believe this. His answers are shortsighted, vague, and overly broad, and half the time, he is in fact, wrong. He’s been mass squelched and banned twice, yet he still persists to behave the same way he has since day one.

I write this because I feel it needs to be said. This community has become more or less, a shit hole. I no longer desire to be a part of this community for these reasons. I hope that perhaps the fact that what is being said is coming from a moderator, one who’s been a member of this community since the beginning, and has a genuine desire to fix this community. I am usually an optimist; however, each day that goes by, my optimism fades. If you care about this community, make a conscious effort to fix it.
 

TMSTKSBK

Lord
I recognize a lot of what you're talking about in myself and my own answers to questions. I'll strive to be more helpful in the future.
 

nomad707

Knight
from personal expeirences and me doing it myself, i can say that his statement is 100% true. a while back when i need help scripting, people showed me how to do it, but now mostly i see a "search for it" or, learn c#" Which i will be honost, and say that this is a thing that i have personally done. I will watch my replies, and make them as heartedly as i can, and DESCRIBE how to do things, and not give the answer of "search for it"
 

Ravatar

Knight
Thank you, I agree completely with every point made here. Sadly, I can't say it without getting a thread locked.
 

godhand

Wanderer
Thank you theoutcastdev for exposing the truth.

it's so true, even in starbuck's, some people are just rude, we are a community and people should be helping each other and supporting each other in making the learning experiance better. Even though there is alot of people who have been rude in their postings there are alot who are very nice and helpfull. Some of the members of the community are rude, some just have bad days and unfortunatly take it out on the newer members of the community. I do hope though that seeing this thread will change some peoples attitudes. I like many other think that this community is a great place (most times), and we all need to stop and think before we respond to others, and realize that they are new and will learn the rules and will over time learn to script on their own, and then one day they may be helping you:D . Smile take a deep breath and be Nice.
 

Morxeton

Sorceror
Indeed this community has gone downhill. I agree with everything posted here.

When I came to this community, I didn't even know the language C# even existed prior to me joining. I learned from knowing nothing by looking at scripts and from receiving help from this community. Back when I had joined, everyone had seemed friendlier than the community is now.

The RunUO community had been a positive influence for me as well, as I now write programs for my company from time to time to help automate lengthy and tedious processes even though it isn't in my job title to do so. I have strongly considered changing career paths from network administration to programming.

The community today seems to be exactly as Outkast has put it. We need to come together and help each other, not e-bolt each other to death.
 

Memnoch

Wanderer
Those of us that have long ago decided to only use this forum for reference may feel the need to post how accurate your post was. I cannot find fault with any part of it. I left because of a user mentioned in the origonal post, and its not just him, this place is a shithole, and many of us gave up on it. Good luck getting a turnaround here.
 

mblicata

Wanderer
Amen, that's all I can say. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother checking any of the discussion forums. I just hope this thread too doesn't degenerate and lose it's point, ending up just another he said she said argument thread.
 
I agree too. I myself is afraid to ask questions here. Because of the vague answers and the do a Search for it.. Searching on this board can be a month long task for one answer to a problem. I only started C# about 6 mos ago.. Granted I have learned a lot but not nearly enough... And that I learned mostly by reading others posts. I can understand making us work for the right answers. But Seanchen.net's answers makes me want to bang head on desk.. figuring out his answers are as bad as figuring out what to change where to make it work. Just wished that Seanchen.net would not reply to post if he doesnt want to help us newbies that want to learn and are sorry they come across being stupid. Dont want to be given the answers just lead in the right direction...and explained to how things work.. So I too can be part of the Community and help a newbie...
 

PerfectWing

Wanderer
The user himself, I don't so much have a problem with. I'm not saying I agree with his methods in the least. But, dealing with one person isn't even worth calling a "problem". But, somewhere along the line it became adopted as "the best method for teaching newbies". And that's where our problem surfaced. If I had joined anytime in as much as the past year, maybe longer, there's no way I would've attempted to learn what I do know of C#, much less given up one emulator for another emulator.

A lot of people assimilated this style and approach to problem solving that, let's face it, has no tact, or any people skills involved, what-so-ever. There's a huge lack of general courtesy, respect, and netiquette throughout the community now. With all the people utilizing this new method, anyone left posting actual helpful information, and I'll take a moment to point out Ravatar (of whom I chose so if anyone asks me to cite reference I know it won't take me long at all to dig one up -- granted it might be six months ago since he withdrew from posting much for reasons herein), was generally overlooked in the swapping of e-penis measurements.

Just to kind of add-on to what's already been said. And with that said, I'll gladly sign this thread. Let's bring back the <3!

I'm tired of seeing RunUO and thinking Run U Off. :(
 

Greystar

Wanderer
PerfectWing said:
The user himself, I don't so much have a problem with. I'm not saying I agree with his methods in the least. But, dealing with one person isn't even worth calling a "problem". But, somewhere along the line it became adopted as "the best method for teaching newbies". And that's where our problem surfaced. If I had joined anytime in as much as the past year, maybe longer, there's no way I would've attempted to learn what I do know of C#, much less given up one emulator for another emulator.

A lot of people assimilated this style and approach to problem solving that, let's face it, has no tact, or any people skills involved, what-so-ever. There's a huge lack of general courtesy, respect, and netiquette throughout the community now. With all the people utilizing this new method, anyone left posting actual helpful information, and I'll take a moment to point out Ravatar (of whom I chose so if anyone asks me to cite reference I know it won't take me long at all to dig one up -- granted it might be six months ago since he withdrew from posting much for reasons herein), was generally overlooked in the swapping of e-penis measurements.

Just to kind of add-on to what's already been said. And with that said, I'll gladly sign this thread. Let's bring back the <3!

I'm tired of seeing RunUO and thinking Run U Off. :(

I will say that about 90% of my posts I try to be helpfull, but when it seems like my help is just plain being ignored. I kind of digress towards a more defensive mode, which means my posts become rather vague, however I tend to not post in threads that have been asked atleast 100 times since I KNOW i'm just going to put "Search for it" cause the answer already exists. Especially when someone got an answer to that exact same question not more then a day before and its no less then 4 posts below the one just made. I can understand if people try to use the search and come up with 10 pages of "vaguely, kinda-sorta, but not really related" posts I've done this before when I was searching for an answer that was already answered, finally finding it on the last page, only cause I narrowed the search since I new I responded in the thread in question and found it easier. I think that because most of us how have been here a while have seen these same questions answer and know the answers are still available is what brings up "Use the Search feature" cause it saves having to go through and re-explane the whole thing again. I guess instead of telling people to use the search feature, people could do it for them then tell them how they found the related post (in a nice way say I found this using Search with these Key words).
 

Irian

Page
I see truth in your posting, TheOutkastDev, and I don't like the feeling that it concerns me. Personally I know, that the forums are not a very "nice" place to be around, but probably have become to rough myself...
 

LordHogFred

Knight
I can exactly where you're coming from Outkast.
The community used to be really happy and everyone was able to be friendly to each other and help each other out. Everyone had something to offer. But now it just seems that people that have things to offfer the community are getting fed up and sick of the pathetic responses to threads. I used to love browsing through all the new posts on the forum but I just can't be arsed now because I know exactly what I'll find, after about the first 4 posts the topic degenerates into a stupid childrens argument.
Oh well, perhaps there is still hope for the community.
 
thank the lord

thank the lord for outkastdev cause i was getting so sick of this cummity you are very right i seen a lot of young ones come and try and learn and get bashed on. i like to add my 2 cents

First i loved runuo when first came out wow the updates about every month then boom 1.0 gets released then you had to pay to get a god script for a free freaken emu whats even orse is the money went to ryan and the dev team not the people that made the scripts.opnly thing i hate about this emu is its a cash cow and has ass hole replys to you need to knopw posts like i asked about a scirpt got bashed and said do a fucking search well i did post a link would help.


and a nother thing UOGAMERS shard ran by the dev team here at runuo oh sure the use that to make money as well i remember when the first started that donate crap i remember ryan said no one clicks my links i will shut down shard what the hell is that about,

Just cause you have a good emu dont mean you can controlpeople i mean i thought it was post to be free and fun. we dont even hear from the dev team on any thing around here not less its bashing on some one.

so like outkast said this emu has went to crap in a hand basket itwill take a hell lot to get it back to the cool state it used to be in.

untell then bye all
 

gandalf

Sorceror
Thank YOU outkastdev. This is the very reason I have never made more than a couple posts. I love the forum and what it does to promote the UO community but I never ask for help or support here due to majority of people being made to feel like an uneducated moron when they ask for help.

I do have to say there are a lot of good scripters here that help as much as they can and they are much appreciated. There are those of us that enjoy running a shard but have many other life obligations that prevent us from spending huge amounts of time learning C# just to make a minor change in our shards.

As sad as the state of the forum is. I love RunUO and will continue to use it. I still think it's the best emulator there is and look forward to the surprises and improvements in 2.0.
 

Darkadia

Wanderer
Ravatar said:
Thank you, I agree completely with every point made here. Sadly, I can't say it without getting a thread locked.

I, myself, have messaged (privately) numerous newbies and informed them what they're up against. "Don't take it bad, the community in general is not going to help you very much. I learned that some time ago..." RunUO the software is a great thing, RunUO the community is as friendly as asking favors of a mother bear while standing on her cub. I have not voiced my observations because I've watched in numerous posts where it happens unhindered, and I have no use for being banned. Now, a moderator says it, one who is assumedly above the banning.

It's a relief that it has been said, if only so people will think about the concept, and maybe one less newbie will be berated because they ask a question. I have been 'here' since 'here' was Ryan hosting uox3dev, even if I haven't posted that whole time. I, like Gandalf said above, rarely ask for help. If I don't find the answer searching forums, I google my question or back up my server and screw with it till I figure it out, or have to restore. Up to this point, asking for much help hasn't been worth the headache.

I've always wondered; why post a reply if you don't really feel like helping? Surely the Phantoms and similar posters know they're not helping by telling people "I can do what you're asking me how to do, but I won't tell you how I'd do it" or "you stupid fool, go search"? If it's too much work to type up a reply and try to help, then don't post at all. Maybe more would come from the community if more were actively helping one another IN the community.
 

Celestria

Wanderer
In the same space it takes to waste space with belittling comments and sarcastic remarks, you can put in helpful remarks and codes

Here is some advice for people who think the search button is the answer, do you know how many posts have been made useless by vague answers, conflicting advice, belittling remarks, misspellings, and contradicting solutions? Too many to count. The majority of people post the same question over and over again because it hasn't been answered since beta 36 and it might not be compatible, or previous answers were way too difficult to understand for people just begining. I figured that the people who use the "do a search" phrase must be a bit out of touch with what is popping up.

RunUO is an Emulator, which is useless unless people use it. People use it because they want the best, but if they can't get simple support when they know nothing of C# then they will drop it like a bad habit and move on.

I am currently trying to put together and FAQ that people can actually understand so they will have up to date answers for simple questions.
Then all the l33t people can put a link to that in their sig instead of one to the search engine. And they can put in a simple, this is answered in the FAQ here is the link, instead of sarcastic and belittling remarks ( unless people get their jollies from being less than cordial to new members)

There is a good thing to come out the attitude people like Phantom display, girls LOVE a$$holes so you guys should be crawling with chicks!:cool: :p :D
Here is something else to look at, people only post on here because they respect the knowledge people have, but how much respect will they have left if they are run over? Remember when you post you are considered a respected source, so act respectable.

There is a good thing though, these guys are not always mean, they do give good advice and I know it must be frustrating when people don't understand programming the same as they do. And there are a lot of nice people here who help the people who haven't taken Information Technology or Computer Science and Technology.
 

siran

Sorceror
I've always thought it odd that so many replies on these forums about the "rules" violate the rules themselves:

Don't tell people to search for an answer. Please just reply with a helpful answer.
If you are not a Moderator, don't try to moderate. Instead provide helpful direction or simply move on to another thread.
 

Joeku

Lord
TheOutkastDev said:
I have been a member of the RunUO community since September of 2002. I have seen this community grow and become the largest in the UO Emulation genre. Many people whom I consider friends are people I’ve met here at RunUO. This community has become sort of a haven for me, a place where I can come together and participate in an intellectual hobby that requires problem solving, abstract thinking, and teamwork. In fact, until I delved into programming in order to use RunUO, I never considered programming as a lifelong job. I am now earning a Bachelor’s of Science in Computer Science from Baylor University. RunUO has undoubtedly been a positive influence in my life.

That is why it saddens me to see this community in the state that it is in. I look around these forums, and I see a complete desecration of what this community used to stand for. It used to be a place where people could learn C# AND RunUO concepts and designs, as well as different implementations, and of course fixing buggy implementations. What has it become now? It is nothing but a short-tempered, critical, impatient community of egotistical pricks who have nothing better to do than belittle users whom are perceived as intellectual inferiors. Catch phrases such as “do a search, <insert variation of noob>,” and “learn C#” have become omnipresent. Do a search for something basic such as, “do a search” and look at those threads that come up. The number of results that return is unacceptable. Since when has repeating an answer or re-explaining a concept become a bad thing?

This community has become a massive cesspool of “l33t scripters” who’s infinite wisdom and “sk3llz” have lead to a holier than thou attitude that repels new users with a rapidity that can only be mimicked by a machine gun. Remember when Courageous made a suggestion for defining named constants for Clilocs numbers? How many people in that thread insulted his intelligence? How many users provoked him to “brag” (as it was labeled so in the thread by several users) about his credentials?

I remember when someone could ask for help making a timer. The response that user got was actual code, an example. Now all users get is a brief, overly vague statement such as “look at script <insert script name here>” or “create a timer and make it do the work.” These kinds of half assed answers are evidence of the digression of this community to the point where it is simply sickening.

And of course, we have those radical users whom believe that because of their join date, they are above and beyond the rules. People like Phantom/Seanchen.net/Jason. We all know this individual. He needs no introduction, but what he does need is an attitude adjustment, or removal from the community. He has single handedly started more fights with users than half the community combined. Why? Is it because his “answers” make users think? No. Only those who are blinded by the legacy of Phantom as a member of this community believe this. His answers are shortsighted, vague, and overly broad, and half the time, he is in fact, wrong. He’s been mass squelched and banned twice, yet he still persists to behave the same way he has since day one.

I write this because I feel it needs to be said. This community has become more or less, a shit hole. I no longer desire to be a part of this community for these reasons. I hope that perhaps the fact that what is being said is coming from a moderator, one who’s been a member of this community since the beginning, and has a genuine desire to fix this community. I am usually an optimist; however, each day that goes by, my optimism fades. If you care about this community, make a conscious effort to fix it.
So true...
 
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