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Why I hate RunUO

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Johabius

Knight
daat99 said:
Please tell me what stops him from opening a thread in starbucks in similar note to:
"I'm looking for a new project, anyone have any ideas?"
Absolutely nothing...and believe me I know all about rules, being a parent, you know there has to be rules in place, and there are always reasons for those rules. But also, as you know being a moderator, that there is always going to be someone that breaks the rules as well. Maybe a requests forum wouldn't be a good idea, instead maybe the rules need to be reviewed and revised a bit. Thanks to both you and Seanchen for providing a good discussion and giving me something to think about other than "what's for dinner" or "what's on TV tonight".
 

daat99

Moderator
Staff member
Johabius said:
I completely agree with this. You are beginning to sway me on the position of a requests forum as well;)
We've got to find a way, that will make newcomers feel more welcome, and will keep the more seasoned members of the community more interested in helping those newcomers become a productive or helpful part of this place. I have to admit that when I first joined the RunUO forums, I felt completely lost, and wanted to just give up trying to learn many times, but I stuck around, read a lot, tried to sift through the coal to find the diamonds, and I'm very glad I did. It makes learning a lot more interesting when you know that there are others out there struggling to learn too;)
Unfortunatly for us, most of the people that visit RunUO doesn't want to take the time to learn.
Let's the facts be told once and for all.
I never saw anyone getting flammed for asking a question after he tried to solve it.

If people post stupid questions that clearly indicates that they didn't even tried to fix them than it's extreamly annoying and they will most likely get flamed (altho it sometimes would be better if they would be ignored but not everybody can ignore everything).

Also most of the flaming posts I saw in this forums were ment to flame persons that tried to give a direction on finding the answer, and those flames usually wasn't made by the person that asked the question but by unrelated people that had some bad feelings with the persons they flamed (no, I'm not talking about seanchen).

Johabius said:
Absolutely nothing...and believe me I know all about rules, being a parent, you know there has to be rules in place, and there are always reasons for those rules. But also, as you know being a moderator, that there is always going to be someone that breaks the rules as well. Maybe a requests forum wouldn't be a good idea, instead maybe the rules need to be reviewed and revised a bit. Thanks to both you and Seanchen for providing a good discussion and giving me something to think about other than "what's for dinner" or "what's on TV tonight".
The good things that people mentioned here about having a request forum can already be achieved in the current rule set in the starbucks forum.
All the bad things (aka give me... give me... give me...) can't and that's why the rules are set like they are.

People are allowed to offer to fulfill requests but they aren't allowed to make those requests in the first place (yes, it's confusing to me as well but trust me it works).
 

Yiffi

Wanderer
Thanks for your answers both Senchen and Daat.

I have been reading this. And speaking as a newber here that doesn't want to learn programming, but will give the little things a shot at least and try it out. I can safely say that I have more hope of the future posts being treated with a bit more common curtiousy and it may not seem like much but I want to thank the efforts being made. And I like the FAQ forum :).

It was kind of cool. Today I didn't feel scared to ask a very basic question, and you know what, I didn't get flamed!!! It was great. I actually got a response too, doubley cool.

I see a change one day after this post was made. And for me at least it has made a difference in how I see the community. I hope it keeps up.
 

daat99

Moderator
Staff member
Yiffi said:
Thanks for your answers both Senchen and Daat.

I have been reading this. And speaking as a newber here that doesn't want to learn programming, but will give the little things a shot at least and try it out. I can safely say that I have more hope of the future posts being treated with a bit more common curtiousy and it may not seem like much but I want to thank the efforts being made. And I like the FAQ forum :).

It was kind of cool. Today I didn't feel scared to ask a very basic question, and you know what, I didn't get flamed!!! It was great. I actually got a response too, doubley cool.

I see a change one day after this post was made. And for me at least it has made a difference in how I see the community. I hope it keeps up.
Like I said many times to many different people.
As long as you follow the rules and show people that you actually try nobody will flame you.
So far every single 1 of those people that were afraid to post posted what they wanted, followed the rules, showed that they and they didn't got flamed ;)
 

Johabius

Knight
daat99 said:
If people post stupid questions
And on a somewhat humourous note: There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.:D
All kidding aside though, the truth of the matter is, that no matter how perfect we try to make this community, there is always going to be someone that comes in and tries to muck things up. It's just human nature. I'm thankful that there are humane people here that try to help as often as they can.
On an unrelated note, a while back ago, I asked for help with an older version of Raelis's Vendor stone, and I never said thank you to you and and everyone else that tried to help. Sadly, I realized that doing what I was trying to do was beyond my ability at the time, so I gave up and never revisited the topic. So thank you daat and others who tried to help me.
 

Chinook

Wanderer
TheOutkastDev said:
I have been a member of the RunUO community since September of 2002. I have seen this community grow and become the largest in the UO Emulation genre. Many people whom I consider friends are people I’ve met here at RunUO. This community has become sort of a haven for me, a place where I can come together and participate in an intellectual hobby that requires problem solving, abstract thinking, and teamwork. In fact, until I delved into programming in order to use RunUO, I never considered programming as a lifelong job. I am now earning a Bachelor’s of Science in Computer Science from Baylor University. RunUO has undoubtedly been a positive influence in my life.

That is why it saddens me to see this community in the state that it is in. I look around these forums, and I see a complete desecration of what this community used to stand for. It used to be a place where people could learn C# AND RunUO concepts and designs, as well as different implementations, and of course fixing buggy implementations. What has it become now? It is nothing but a short-tempered, critical, impatient community of egotistical pricks who have nothing better to do than belittle users whom are perceived as intellectual inferiors. Catch phrases such as “do a search, <insert variation of noob>,” and “learn C#” have become omnipresent. Do a search for something basic such as, “do a search” and look at those threads that come up. The number of results that return is unacceptable. Since when has repeating an answer or re-explaining a concept become a bad thing?

This community has become a massive cesspool of “l33t scripters” who’s infinite wisdom and “sk3llz” have lead to a holier than thou attitude that repels new users with a rapidity that can only be mimicked by a machine gun. Remember when Courageous made a suggestion for defining named constants for Clilocs numbers? How many people in that thread insulted his intelligence? How many users provoked him to “brag” (as it was labeled so in the thread by several users) about his credentials?

I remember when someone could ask for help making a timer. The response that user got was actual code, an example. Now all users get is a brief, overly vague statement such as “look at script <insert script name here>” or “create a timer and make it do the work.” These kinds of half assed answers are evidence of the digression of this community to the point where it is simply sickening.

And of course, we have those radical users whom believe that because of their join date, they are above and beyond the rules. People like Phantom/Seanchen.net/Jason. We all know this individual. He needs no introduction, but what he does need is an attitude adjustment, or removal from the community. He has single handedly started more fights with users than half the community combined. Why? Is it because his “answers” make users think? No. Only those who are blinded by the legacy of Phantom as a member of this community believe this. His answers are shortsighted, vague, and overly broad, and half the time, he is in fact, wrong. He’s been mass squelched and banned twice, yet he still persists to behave the same way he has since day one.

I write this because I feel it needs to be said. This community has become more or less, a shit hole. I no longer desire to be a part of this community for these reasons. I hope that perhaps the fact that what is being said is coming from a moderator, one who’s been a member of this community since the beginning, and has a genuine desire to fix this community. I am usually an optimist; however, each day that goes by, my optimism fades. If you care about this community, make a conscious effort to fix it.


A++++

:)
 

daat99

Moderator
Staff member
Johabius said:
And on a somewhat humourous note: There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.:D
All kidding aside though, the truth of the matter is, that no matter how perfect we try to make this community, there is always going to be someone that comes in and tries to muck things up. It's just human nature. I'm thankful that there are humane people here that try to help as often as they can.
On an unrelated note, a while back ago, I asked for help with an older version of Raelis's Vendor stone, and I never said thank you to you and and everyone else that tried to help. Sadly, I realized that doing what I was trying to do was beyond my ability at the time, so I gave up and never revisited the topic. So thank you daat and others who tried to help me.
Most of us aren't here to get the thank you's and stuff but only here to help the community as much as we can because the community helped us in the past.
It's always nice to hear someone say Thanks though ;)
 

Seanchen.net

Wanderer
daat99 said:
Most of us aren't here to get the thank you's and stuff but only here to help the community as much as we can because the community helped us in the past.
It's always nice to hear someone say Thanks though ;)

I made a really bad joke...
 

Ryan

RunUO Founder
Staff member
All talk no action.

That's all I am going to say.

You all ignore the rules.

I've hired numerous moderators, staff members and the such and they all get run off.

Frankly this community hasnt yet realized the RunUO team has no desire to release RunUO 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6.... 2.0, 2.1... so on and so forth until this community shapes up.

Its amazing to me that you can all identify the problem but you cant fix it. Leading by example is #1 to fix this problem.

Phantom is a fucker end of story. Like it or not he is.

You guys cant do the simple thing and tell someone an answer to a questions... you've got to force them to learn and you know what people dont HAVE TO LEARN. Just give them the answer or shut up is that so damned hard.

I've asked 1,000,000+ times for all of you to stop using the "search first n00b" responses and just HELP PEOPLE.

When we started this place we gave answers, we didn't force people to try to learn, we just gave them the answer. Regardless of what's "RIGHT" in the eyes of some of you we are here to help others, not make them learn.

The members of this community that you give answers to will eventually learn or leave end of story. If you just gave them answers rather than flame them or blast them you can easily make this a better place.

If this is a better place the people that work on the distro would likely hang out more often.

In short... if you really enjoy RunUO and want us to be here more often to do things more often with you, YOU have to change the way you treat the users of this community.

If you don't....
 

Celestria

Wanderer
Well I am not that great at teaching my self in record time, but I can do it slowly. However when I have a good teacher I seem to learn very quickly. RunUO is one of the reasons I am going to school for information technology. I just started classes and I won't be learning c# for a year or so. I want to expose myself to it right now so that is why I am just starting out. Just imagine how many people like me have come on here. Calling people like me lazy is a very bad bad thing.
So when I say,
which script do I edit to get a certain effect and which line(s) do I need to edit.
I don't need you to do it for me, I want to look at the specific line to see how it breaks down, how it interacts with the rest of the scripts. It is my point A.
Once people understand that not everyone is looking for an easy way out, then they can be more helpful. It is important you do not assume a persons intentions.

Ryan hun, thanks for laying it down. Now people can quit debating.
 

Seanchen.net

Wanderer
All I know is, I am willing to change, but I just don't want to be the only one.

You can call me any name you want, it might even be true, but I have tried to "change" and I hope some people have noticed that. Ryan speaks alot of truth, in the fact we all do infact ignore the rules, and morph the rules to suit or needs.

We have to ask ourselfs if we are willing to change, and if were not willing to change, then we should do the community a favor and leave. Ryan is the only person that can make me feel small, but at the sametime, speak the absolute truth.

The only thing I cannot do, and I am sorry to say this, is help somebody with their question without knowing what they tried. I am sorry I just can't do it, but my want to help them is so great, I am put into a postion where I can either not help them or ask for them to post what he tried. Might be easy to say not to help, but the problem with that is the fact, if somebody doesn't help them they don't get help. I don't know whats worst the help they get otherwise or not gettin any help. I thought by allowing the indivdual person to decided, was a good thing, perhaps not.

But in an effort of change, and in the spirite of talk, I will find another way of getting more information. I hope people will respect that I am going to change, and perhaps find faults and work on them, instead of making me feel bad about myself. Trust me, Ryan has done that already, and nobody else needs to add onto my guilt.
 

Ryan

RunUO Founder
Staff member
Seanchen.net said:
All I know is, I am willing to change, but I just don't want to be the only one.

You can call me any name you want, it might even be true, but I have tried to "change" and I hope some people have noticed that. Ryan speaks alot of truth, in the fact we all do infact ignore the rules, and morph the rules to suit or needs.

We have to ask ourselfs if we are willing to change, and if were not willing to change, then we should do the community a favor and leave. Ryan is the only person that can make me feel small, but at the sametime, speak the absolute truth.

The only thing I cannot do, and I am sorry to say this, is help somebody with their question without knowing what they tried. I am sorry I just can't do it, but my want to help them is so great, I am put into a postion where I can either not help them or ask for them to post what he tried. Might be easy to say not to help, but the problem with that is the fact, if somebody doesn't help them they don't get help. I don't know whats worst the help they get otherwise or not gettin any help. I thought by allowing the indivdual person to decided, was a good thing, perhaps not.

But in an effort of change, and in the spirite of talk, I will find another way of getting more information. I hope people will respect that I am going to change, and perhaps find faults and work on them, instead of making me feel bad about myself. Trust me, Ryan has done that already, and nobody else needs to add onto my guilt.

It's not personal Phantom.

I'm just being honest and you're a good example.

You are by FAR not the only one.
 

Maynza

Formerly DontdroptheSOAD
I don't think ryan meant it as an insult phantom.

He was just saying that "that is the way it is, get over it" to the other people.
 

Seanchen.net

Wanderer
Ryan said:
It's not personal Phantom.

I'm just being honest and you're a good example.

You are by FAR not the only one.

Ryan you know me, I don't take this stuff personal, I stop taking it personal awhile ago. I can't even say when I stop taking it personal, doesn't change the fact you did infact speak absolute truth.

I have been saying, that its not only my fault, its those that won't accept blame that is the problem. I mean I could do everything right, and do everything like everyone wanted, but I would still be attacked. Its not because I would deserve it, or not deserve it, the fact is that it would just happen.

I mean I know its not just not one person, and most people know that its just not one person, but its everyone that that thinks it just one person. Some people think its you, some people think its me, some people think its [insert random name here].

You speak about how it used to be, but it used not to be 40,000 people, a bad seed in a 1000 people was more rare. You would think it would be the other way around but its not.
 

Macil

Sorceror
I will say this much about the "learn C# yourself" line...

I bought a book on C#, and lucky enough for me my neighbor is a programmer. She was able to tell me after about 3 hours of my wife and I trying to figure it out on our own that the book had about six fucking typos that was making the code come out wrong (therefor our program wouldn't compile properly). Actually it was C++. But yeah, with stuff like that on the market. I don't understand why people arent a bit more willing to help, heh.

But really, I don't see why with all the talent in this community everyone can't come together to make it a better place. RunUO could be so much more if you literally took all those 'do a search' or other smart ass remarks out of every post ever made and replaced it with an actual helpful friendly reply. Think about that for a moment, what do you imaging RunUO could be? :D

-And I'm not getting involved in the Phantom thing, I just wanted to speak my mind about the community in general.
 

Seanchen.net

Wanderer
DontdroptheSOAD said:
I don't think ryan meant it as an insult phantom.

He was just saying that "that is the way it is, get over it" to the other people.

Yes, I know this, and I was being honest in my response to his statment.

I was saying I know I can be blamed, I know I have my faults and I am willing to change, and basicly was trying to see who else is willing to change.

I think we can all be adults here, even if were not adults ( for those people that are not adults in the eyes of their community ), and change ourselfs and not each other.

If we all change, then we all don't have to change each other, and something magical will happen.

A fairy..er I mean people will change.
 

Seanchen.net

Wanderer
Macil said:
I will say this much about the "learn C# yourself" line...

I bought a book on C#, and lucky enough for me my neighbor is a programmer. She was able to tell me after about 3 hours of my wife and I trying to figure it out on our own that the book had about six fucking typos that was making the code come out wrong (therefor our program wouldn't compile properly). Actually it was C++. But yeah, with stuff like that on the market. I don't understand why people arent a bit more willing to help, heh.

But really, I don't see why with all the talent in this community everyone can't come together to make it a better place. RunUO could be so much more if you literally took all those 'do a search' or other smart ass remarks out of every post ever made and replaced it with an actual helpful friendly reply. Think about that for a moment, what do you imaging RunUO could be? :D

-And I'm not getting involved in the Phantom thing, I just wanted to speak my mind about the community in general.

Part of the problem is, some of us don't see the harm of using a research tool like the search function, and its like nails on a blackboard when somebody complains about the fact we suggest it.

Its one thing for Ryan to say it, its another thing for another member to say it, perhaps instead of complaining about the fact people suggest the search feature somebody suggests a fix instead :)

I see both answers are indeed helpful, and the level of helpful all depends on the user getting the advice. The thoughts of other people are perhaps not important to the end result, getting the person the answer.

Should we be more direct and just answer the damn questons perhaps, but there are alot of damn questions, there has at some point some subject that be be searched for.

I am speaking in general terms, and only quote the above user, to point out faults in another side of the community not the user themself.
 

Celestria

Wanderer
Seanchen I pledge not to jump all over you when you make a mistake. :D
Other than doing that I am an angel on here.:eek:
Besides how can I get on the case of another Robert Jordan fan? It is unethical.
 

Seanchen.net

Wanderer
Celestria said:
Seanchen I pledge not to jump all over you when you make a mistake. :D
Other than doing that I am an angel on here.:eek:
Besides how can I get on the case of another Robert Jordan fan? It is unethical.

I have never read any of Rober Jordan's books, I read the first page/volume of World Of Time and the names of the cities turned me off.

You don't use real city names, in a freaking work of fiction.
 
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