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Why I hate RunUO

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Courageous

Wanderer
LOL. Mr. S. is doing okay. He's working on his electronic communication skills. Just needs a bit of polishing, that's all. Well, perhaps a little dose of empathy, too, but that will come. Everyone needs to lighten up.

I'm going to repost to pull the trick of a tired old blowhard, and retell one of my own stories. Repost time:

Since politeness...

There's an old saying that I like:

"Politeness is the invention of an armed society."

In today's world, if someone sends some malicious words in your direction, if you kick their ass, somehow you are supposed to be the problem. I often think think we have swung too far this way. There used to be another saying:

"Them's fightin' words."


I think there was a lot of wisdom in that saying.

In one of these eras, everyone was meticulously referred to as "sir," or "master". In another era, it was simply "mister".

In the current era, we seem to free to call anyone anything we like. "Ass," "bitch", "cocksucker," are all apparently part of our protected free speech rights, but nowhere do we seem to feel obligated to call any one, "mister," miz," or even so much as use their last name.

See a correlation?

I do.

The day after 9/11, a certain well-known internet troll, real name Gordon Roy Parker, pseudonym "Ray Gordon," publically opined that everyone who died there was just some pathetic low life who "deserved" what they got. He had a thing against high finance, or something. Free speech and all. Thing is, he lived in the area, and there were some people who had the ability to find this out.

They plastered his entire neighborhood with flyers, publically displaying his malicious words to several hundred of his neighbors. He got many death threats in reply, and his life was a living hell for quite some time thereafter.

He lived. He was lucky.

On a whole, I think justice was done.

Free speech. We think of it as a freedom. The wise amongst us, however, know quite well that all freedoms come with certain responsibilities. Mr. Parker liked to think he didn't have any of those. He was wrong about that, and learned that he was wrong about that--the very hard way.

This has little to do indeed with one Mr. Seanchen. He's an okay fellow, who definitely could learn to communicate better. He could also learn that not all people he communicates with are devoid of feelings; children, adults, people from all walks of life, we all feel pain and hurt. Gruffness is no excuse.

I'd hate to see Mr. Seanchen have to learn the hard way. While I don't forsee a "Ray Gordon" future for Mr. S., he might consider that some of the messages he posts here, would, for example, earn him a pointed talking to at work.

I find that to be a pretty good litmus test, actually. Would you talk to a coworker like that?

Perhaps we should all be answering this question. You see, even if a coworker is an ass, we don't get to talk to our coworker like some do to Mr. S.

C//

p.s. I agree with Mr. S. He is trying to be a better person. Since most people never even try, try giving him a bit of a break. Lighten up.
 

Joeku

Lord
Seanchen.net said:
I have never read any of Rober Jordan's books, I read the first page/volume of World Of Time and the names of the cities turned me off.

You don't use real city names, in a freaking work of fiction.
A long long time ago, in a country far far away...

-Springtime, Third Age-
-Bangkok, Gondor-​

I can see it all now :eek:
 

Celestria

Wanderer
Seanchen.net said:
I have never read any of Rober Jordan's books, I read the first page/volume of World Of Time and the names of the cities turned me off.

You don't use real city names, in a freaking work of fiction.

I'll fill you in on why he uses names of real cities.
The world in the wheel of time is supposed to be either our past or our future.
Read the books, practice your suspension of disbeleif skills and I promise you will enjoy them.. at least until book 10, don't read book 10.;)

It's istambul now constantinople now its istambul now constantinople. You get the drift.
 

Courageous

Wanderer
The books were perfectly fine... until. Until it became obvious that Mr. Jordan was suffering from a certain terminal writer's illness. Which illness, you ask?

Diarrhea of the Pen
.

:)
 

Dian

Sorceror
Ryan:

You have absolutely, without a doubt changed my thoughts of you. I honestly didnt think you cared that much about how things have been going on around this place, but you proved me wrong.

Actions speak louder than words, yeah.. So what can be done here.. Maybe a forum for RunUO is a bad idea these days.. maybe you guys need to lock everything except the general discussion, and announcements. Fuck the Script Submissions and everything. Make the community realize that this has gone far enough.

Then, after a few weeks of that.. maybe you could try to reopen the forums back up, one at a time, giving the community another chance to start over.

I think the only way to really get everyones attention that this has gone far enough, is to simply go into lock down. tough luck. RunUO 2.0 can wait another year if you guys dont thing its worth releasing to a shit hole community.

Hate me all you want, RunUO.com community, but DAMN this place sucks.

and, yes.. Phantom.. sorry man, but shit.. If 75% of my posts were explaining why my replies really were not rude.. I would feel the need to re-evaluate my personality.

Think about it, man.. and I am not trying to attack you here, but god damn, you do spend more time explaining why you were rude (or how you feel you were not rude) than probably most all the community put together! thats gotta say something about yourself.. and again, I am not saying that because I want to talk shit to you, I really dont care either way how you take that. I have hated your replies to people, for many years now. Your bitter, end of story.

Phantom said:
The only thing I cannot do, and I am sorry to say this, is help somebody with their question without knowing what they tried. I am sorry I just can't do it, but my want to help them is so great, I am put into a position where I can either not help them or ask for them to post what he tried. Might be easy to say not to help, but the problem with that is the fact, if somebody doesn't help them they don't get help. I don't know whats worst the help they get otherwise or not gettin any help. I thought by allowing the individual person to decided, was a good thing, perhaps not.

Look, you simply dont give anyone else time to reply to help.. you practically live on these forums.. I mean, 40,000 fucking posts??!?! (and i dont care whose name you were under) I would be willing to bet that at least 10,000 of those posts were telling someone that they cant request that, or to search before they fucking ask a question. Yeah.. take a step back, man, and re-evaluate yourself.

Lock the forums... Ban me again, Datt99, for speaking the truth about stuff.. you are just as guilty as anyone for being rude, and jumping someones case for Petey shit... even if you are a moderator. Big deal, power tripping monkey.

And if this is the last post for me, at RunUO, either by my preference, or by some dip shit banning me for speaking my mind about a fucked up community.. who gives a shit, it would probly do me a favor not to have something to read that pisses me off each day.

(just appology, nearly drunk too.. so my fingers are not letting up ;) )

P.S. I really feel that the thread should have been named, "Why I hate RunUO.com.. rather than RunUO. since this is in no way really related to RunUO itself, but the community that has torn it to shreds.
 
okay i got a nother problem

You guys that do know a lot about scripts have some really great scripts people just want something cool for there shard but all you want them to do is make it them selfs i bet you all never knew how to code at one time or a nother have asked for something just as well so stop beeing a asshole and give them what theask for now i see if the asked for something that would takes hours on in coding but come on people just want to have something for there FREE SHARD that comes from a FREE EMU i dont think the want to pay for it if the did the would be paying osi toplayer there servers not to run one.



dont fucking tyr and say im wrong cause you now what ever one is wrong no one hasa great point so get on with you little lives and start helping cause i know before runuo you allwanted to have some one code for your shard, thats all again
 

Dian

Sorceror
Just a side note:

@Phantom:

I really did not intend on attacking you, but somehow, someway you must understand that you have made a huge impact on how the community acts here. People have followed your cold replies of "search first, no requests" standard. That is a rule you break every day.

If I am banned for making these statements, I can only hope that you maybe take what I have said into consideration.

@Datt99:

I really dont know you at all, but have read countless posts of yours replying the same way.. rude, and cold to people's questions. Banning me for simply standing up and saying you were rude to someone. whatever, you have that power here, good for you.

I can only hope that in the end, things will ease up, and the RunUO.com community will somehow, someway return back to how it was in the begining.. everyone was just happy to be here, and happy to help someone out. The overwhelming feeling we had when we were actually able to contribute somthing that was of some use to RunUO.. Doesnt anyone remember that???

*fades off into the background again*
 

Greystar

Wanderer
Dragon Slayer said:
You guys that do know a lot about scripts have some really great scripts people just want something cool for there shard but all you want them to do is make it them selfs i bet you all never knew how to code at one time or a nother have asked for something just as well so stop beeing a asshole and give them what theask for now i see if the asked for something that would takes hours on in coding but come on people just want to have something for there FREE SHARD that comes from a FREE EMU i dont think the want to pay for it if the did the would be paying osi toplayer there servers not to run one.



dont fucking tyr and say im wrong cause you now what ever one is wrong no one hasa great point so get on with you little lives and start helping cause i know before runuo you allwanted to have some one code for your shard, thats all again


You mention Free Shard and Free EMU but you have to realize peoples TIME is priceless. So people are not normally willing to write scripts for people to use on their shard UNLESS it's an idea they where already throwing around. People release scripts to the forums when they either 1) thought of something new for their own shard and that is not a unique item of their shard anymore 2) don't mind of their shard is not unique 3) release junk "Uber" items that anyone code monkey can do (ie a scripter who has no idea what they are doing they are just using a template) 4) Think the general community would love the idea. None of us are paid to do this, nor are we paid to help people. I help people when I have a slight Idea of what might work, even if im not entirely right, although if its going to be challenged then provide information backing why the challenger is challenging what im posting. I get very Irate when called a liar when I know I have seen the information Im quoting, OR I'm using it myself and what im using works without a crash. I quoted you cause of the Free stuff you where commenting on, keep in mind OUR TIME is not your free time. I took a long vacation from RunUO about 6 months or so at one point cause I needed to step back away cause I was taking everything out of context. I had DELETED my shard (not backed it UP), uninstalled UO and Uninstalled all my tools. I went back to my other hobbie of running a MUD, which i still do every now and then to keep familliar with my C/C++ coding, even though I don't intend on using any of it in a career. I didn't like how I was becomming and I didn't like where the community was going. When I came back I saw a ton of people I was used to seeing be banned, I had no idea why, those people never came back but I still talk with them on other sites, well besides SeanChen who is still here. However after seeing his posts now he had changed how he responded. I do sometimes post comments in a somewhat cold fasion, but when someone asks the same damn question right underneath someone else post on the exact same thing, its hard not to say USE THE DAMN SEARCH or USE YOUR DAMN EYES. I have looked through 200+ posts to try to find information I know is on the forums, even if it takes 3 hours if I KNOW I saw it I'll look for it. Other people if they do searches will start figuring out how they can use the Advanced search and maybe search within the topics they just searched for other key words that might narrow it down to 3 pages instead of 21. IF Ryan really has a problem with users telling other users to use the SEARCH feature of the forum, then him Zippy, Asyre8, or anyone who as the ability DISABLE or remove the search feature, however that would be annoying for those of us (like me) who do use it. I will also look through forums Page by Page to see if there is something I missed that somehow got marked as read for one reason or another and then I'll post in that, which may get me called a Necromancer or "why did you post in a long dead thread", normally I do it cause I missed that info and it was relevant to something I'm working on now. However if the last post was from 2k3 or earlier or really early 2k4 I probably won't post in it at all. I just print to pdf and save it for later use.
 

Jarrod

Sorceror
I applaud your initial post, and agree fully. I have also felt the exact same decline in the quality of the content that we currently have. Whenever I am able to assist a newer user, i do it with short, to-the-point infos.

examples:
http://www.runuo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64754

another one with 3 experienced users helping a newer user properly (step by level info given). in Seanchen.net's defense, the original user had posted a rather impatient response, then edited it again.
http://www.runuo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64753

or even examples dealing with frustrated persons
http://www.runuo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60516&page=15

then again, I work 1st, 2nd and deep level support in IT and customer care so Im used to dealing with users.
 
Seanchen.net said:
All I know is, I am willing to change, but I just don't want to be the only one.
This quote is only meant for example, not as offense.
I think, there is the TRUE problem of every comunity. I will change, but first the others should change... As long as all people of a comunity think that way, there will be no change at all.

There is no way to change something, but do it! (if i remember correct Saenchen said this a few times, too)

The second problem is some kind of rule-riding. Rules are a really good thing. Without rules there will be absolut chaos.

Beware of quoting the rules to every newbie. There is all times a way to make this a little smarter and "stretch" the rules.

e.g. Requesting scripts are not allowed. Please read the rules first. btw: The script you are looking for is in the script submission-forum allready released. You find it searching for "bla bla". If you need to modify the script for your purposes, read yourself through the code and answer questions at the script support forum. We will help you.

Maybe a little long as reply, but a newbie will take this reply very kind...

Maybe one more rule should be added to the forum-rules: Answer nice or don´t answer...

Sorry for my bad english (that´s in fact one reason i don´t post much here).

Greets
Redskull
 

Seanchen.net

Wanderer
nd, yes.. Phantom.. sorry man, but shit.. If 75% of my posts were explaining why my replies really were not rude.. I would feel the need to re-evaluate my personality.

This is not True....

Think about it, man.. and I am not trying to attack you here, but god damn, you do spend more time explaining why you were rude (or how you feel you were not rude) than probably most all the community put together! thats gotta say something about yourself.. and again, I am not saying that because I want to talk shit to you, I really dont care either way how you take that. I have hated your replies to people, for many years now. Your bitter, end of story.

This is not True...

I really did not intend on attacking you, but somehow, someway you must understand that you have made a huge impact on how the community acts here. People have followed your cold replies of "search first, no requests" standard. That is a rule you break every day.

If I am banned for making these statements, I can only hope that you maybe take what I have said into consideration.

You sure seem like your trying to attack me, its the way you said whats obvious to even me, that makes me think that. You were not banned for speaking the truth, you were banned for your attitude I am sure. I cannot control other people only me, so don't blame me for the attitude of other peple. It can never go back to how it was, there are to many people to do that, thats a dream that might never happen. I still argue I tell people to FREAKING SEARCH! I stop that awhile ago...I have not stop forcing people to try to learn, thats something I will work on, by asking for more information in another way. But as long as people think I am asking them to search, at least my part in the community's status will stay the same, I can change can people's damn freaking attitude about me change.


I really dont know you at all, but have read countless posts of yours replying the same way.. rude, and cold to people's questions. Banning me for simply standing up and saying you were rude to someone. whatever, you have that power here, good for you.

Daat is a good moderator, I have not seen any post he shouldn't have made as a moderator, so this statment is not true.

I can only hope that in the end, things will ease up, and the RunUO.com community will somehow, someway return back to how it was in the begining.. everyone was just happy to be here, and happy to help someone out. The overwhelming feeling we had when we were actually able to contribute somthing that was of some use to RunUO.. Doesnt anyone remember that???

I try to contribute something everyday, yet I am attacked every single day.

*fades off into the background again*
 

Jarrod

Sorceror
my most recent "bad" experience with the boards was when I posted the link to world of dungeons in starbucks. Its a browser based RPG game that is pretty well designed, and suitable for use from an office during lunch breaks. It in no way competes with RunUO, or any form of UO for that matter.

the response towards the post was negative, and it was removed completely. "No advertising".....

...yet there are still posts pertaining to World of Warcraft and other diverse games, some of which are direct rivals to UO. these posts are not deleted and I have yet to understand why exactly the post was deleted. It appeared to me that advertising is illegal, but if its a game "that everyone knows" its not illegal which is an extreme double standard that violates the forums rule (if it in fact IS "no advertising, period")
 

daat99

Moderator
Staff member
Dian said:
@Datt99:

I really dont know you at all, but have read countless posts of yours replying the same way.. rude, and cold to people's questions. Banning me for simply standing up and saying you were rude to someone. whatever, you have that power here, good for you.
For someone who doesn't know me at all it sounds you kinda made up your mind that I'm the most evil person on the boards that the only purpose I have is to ban you for something.
I don't know if you keep track but you expected to get banned 3 times in this thread alone and yet I saw nothing that you did to earn a ban.
You were never banned for speaking your mind regardless of what you think, you were temp banned for calling a moderator names (want me to quote them in pm?) and trying to start a flame war with a moderator that replied to person that broke the rules.

I don't know what moderator means to you but to me moderator means that you need to enforce the rules.
A moderator that doesn't reply to rule breaking posts and ignore them is a bad moderator in my book.

Please show me some posts that Iw as rude to people that followed the rules, I would like to see why you thought they are rude and to avoid doing it in the future.
Fell free to send me the list in pm if you wish.

Dian said:
Actions speak louder than words, yeah.. So what can be done here.. Maybe a forum for RunUO is a bad idea these days.. maybe you guys need to lock everything except the general discussion, and announcements. Fuck the Script Submissions and everything. Make the community realize that this has gone far enough.

Then, after a few weeks of that.. maybe you could try to reopen the forums back up, one at a time, giving the community another chance to start over.

I think the only way to really get everyones attention that this has gone far enough, is to simply go into lock down. tough luck. RunUO 2.0 can wait another year if you guys dont thing its worth releasing to a shit hole community.
I actually agree with that.
The community is desperate and maybe a massive forced timeoff will get people start to think and change a bit.
 

Seanchen.net

Wanderer
Jarrod said:
my most recent "bad" experience with the boards was when I posted the link to world of dungeons in starbucks. Its a browser based RPG game that is pretty well designed, and suitable for use from an office during lunch breaks. It in no way competes with RunUO, or any form of UO for that matter.

the response towards the post was negative, and it was removed completely. "No advertising".....

...yet there are still posts pertaining to World of Warcraft and other diverse games, some of which are direct rivals to UO. these posts are not deleted and I have yet to understand why exactly the post was deleted. It appeared to me that advertising is illegal, but if its a game "that everyone knows" its not illegal which is an extreme double standard that violates the forums rule (if it in fact IS "no advertising, period")

A browser game I still state, gave me tracking cookies that were picked up by my spyware program. Discussion about World of Warcraft in starbucks is not the samething as posting a link to a browser game almost nobody would enjoy.

I stll stand by the fact, posting a link to a browser game website is wrong, considering my history with those types of websites..
 

Jarrod

Sorceror
Seanchen.net said:
A browser game I still state, gave me tracking cookies that were picked up by my spyware program. Discussion about World of Warcraft in starbucks is not the samething as posting a link to a browser game almost nobody would enjoy.

Yes, I acknowledge that someone had posted a browser game in the past that had some sort of cookies. I certainly didnt post it. In fact, I had also posted that I would vouch for the legitimacy of the link and the content within.

I know you are just generalizing browser games by saying that its a game that almost nobody would enjoy, as the one I had posted happens to be extremely popular, and had just moved from a european to an international level and was seeking to communicate this on a wide level. (hence the post in the first place)

By your own argument you are also confirming my feeling that "only games that everyone knows may be advertised, anything that we might not like is just illegal". How do games even begin to become well known with no advertisement?
 

daat99

Moderator
Staff member
Jarrod said:
Yes, I acknowledge that someone had posted a browser game in the past that had some sort of cookies. I certainly didnt post it. In fact, I had also posted that I would vouch for the legitimacy of the link and the content within.

I know you are just generalizing browser games by saying that its a game that almost nobody would enjoy, as the one I had posted happens to be extremely popular, and had just moved from a european to an international level and was seeking to communicate this on a wide level. (hence the post in the first place)

By your own argument you are also confirming my feeling that "only games that everyone knows may be advertised, anything that we might not like is just illegal". How do games even begin to become well known with no advertisement?
While you vouch for something it doesn't realy make it safe tho
Personaly I used to play a lot of browser based games and enjoyed most of them a lot.
The reason that your thread got deleted is like you said it was advertisement.
There's nothing wong with discussing other games (runUO competitors or not) but advertising them with links is wrong in my way of thinking.
I may be wrong but untill I'm told so I think that the thread you posted was in violation of the "no advertisement" rule and because of that it was deleted.
 
One example of how bad it has gotten:

Last night I updated my user information on the forums including my email address then went to bed. When I woke up this morning and went to reply to a post I found my account to be locked...... WTF Did I do I wondered to myself. After checking other forums and finding that i could not reply to any, and noting that others were able to, I began to compose a pm to some mods and administrators pleading for forgiveness or at least an explination as to what I had done wrong. About half way through the PM I remembered that I had updated my personal information last night and not reactivated. DUH!

Point is many members of the community are so gun shy that we rarely or even never post. Then when we do many times regret it. When I joined the community it was a different place. Even Phantom, who so many like to single out, and since he is such a good sport about it I am going to give him his props, Phantom assisted many times with small projects I was working on, but back in that day if he was a little brusk the thread didn't get turned into a flame war and eventually he would gleen the information from the newb (myself) and be able to offer pointers on where to look or what to try. Phantom never offered a hand out, and personally I don't blame him for that. Some people might not be as hardened as I though, after all I am a 36 year old prick myself so I let most things just roll off.
 
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