Progress update. - Page 6 - RunUO

Ankhesentapemkah · 10-12-2005, 06:29 AM

ML seriously unbalances PvP if you have AoS rules active... Instakill archery shots, unbalanced weapons, twohanded daggers and onehanded staffs and so on.

cfaust · 10-12-2005, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ankhesentapemkah

ML seriously unbalances PvP if you have AoS rules active... Instakill archery shots, unbalanced weapons, twohanded daggers and onehanded staffs and so on.

Dude we were trying to bring this back on topic, this will derail it again

TheOutkastDev · 10-12-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuIcK_FiNgErS

making UOGateway obsolete

Did Ryan acknowledge this somewhere?

darkstorm · 10-12-2005, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuIcK_FiNgErS

making UOGateway obsolete

How about doing that by implementing client encryption?

TheOutkastDev · 10-12-2005, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstorm

How about doing that by implementing client encryption?

UOGateway still wouldn't be eliminated because of it. People still use it because it allows you to easily connect to multiple shards w/out having to copy over custom mul files or edit the login.cfg

kethoth · 10-12-2005, 05:36 PM

hopefully the release will be soon (not going to ask for a date because asayre will just add a day =P) and ryan nor any other runuo dev has mentioned making uogateway obsolete so please dont mention that as that RUMOR has already caused some unwanted trouble

cfaust · 10-12-2005, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kethoth

hopefully the release will be soon (not going to ask for a date because asayre will just add a day =P) and ryan nor any other runuo dev has mentioned making uogateway obsolete so please dont mention that as that RUMOR has already caused some unwanted trouble

I don't remember Ryan or anyone else on the Dev team making UOGateway obsolete. So I would have to agree with you on this Kethoth, stop the rumors folks.

What the next release will make obsolete in my opinion, well it actually has already done this; make other shard software/emulators obsolete. I wish they'd create a Evercrack emulator in C#. But now I'm just voicing opinions.

cfaust · 10-12-2005, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOutkastDev

UOGateway still wouldn't be eliminated because of it. People still use it because it allows you to easily connect to multiple shards w/out having to copy over custom mul files or edit the login.cfg

Although this is way off base in this thread; I can fully agree with this statement. Not only do RunUO shards use UOG, there are a handful of POL and various "other" brands of software out there for running a shard.

Adding in the client encryption would seriously add time to the releases, and make the community as a whole slightly miserable everytime EA decides to upgrade the client. I don't know this for fact, I am basing my opinion of this on experience with EQEmu and L2J and how the client encryption/protocol changes affect the overall project. Everytime the EQ client receives and upgrade it usually breaks something, then they fix it real quick with another patch, but they change the encryption or protocol and if you recieve a patch or update, you can no longer connect to an EQEmu server. L2J after a month figured out the encryption/protocol stuff with one of the last releases of L2. If you upgraded with a patch or update, you had to have a copy of your old system directory to copy in to make it connect to any L2J server.

Okay, my apologies, I kinda went off topic, I wont' do it again.

Bmzx007 · 10-12-2005, 08:04 PM

Actually, for the majority of the time, EA only updates the logon keys for each version of the client. The encryption scheme as a whole has only changed 3-4 times during UO's time on this earth.

They could (Or someone else could) easily implement something like Sphere did, Where the logon keys are read from an XML file (Sphere just used the INI) and then shard admins could get thier own logon keys, or they could be released on the forum for people to get.

Perhaps even offering both schemes Unencrypted and Encrypted (Like Sphere at the moment) would be something for the future.

cfaust · 10-12-2005, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmzx007

Actually, for the majority of the time, EA only updates the logon keys for each version of the client. The encryption scheme as a whole has only changed 3-4 times during UO's time on this earth.

They could (Or someone else could) easily implement something like Sphere did, Where the logon keys are read from an XML file (Sphere just used the INI) and then shard admins could get thier own logon keys, or they could be released on the forum for people to get.

Perhaps even offering both schemes Unencrypted and Encrypted (Like Sphere at the moment) would be something for the future.

I wasn't completely sure how EA did it; I just know from two other Emus that having to use the encryption really hampers foward development because EQEmu devs are constantly having to work on allowing client updates to connect, it's basically the same with L2J but the encryption/protocol doesn't change drastically enough to cause as much difficulty as it does with EQEmu.

I'm seriously looking forward to the new releases of RunUO regardless of encryption or not, RunUO has surpassed my expectations of a private shard, but I was used to POL for so long that when I first ran RunUO and got in to it and found all this stuff that POL and Sphere had been missing for years I was very happy I made the jump over to RunUO. I am proud to use RunUO, the original from this source and this source only

(No I am not inviting anyone to bring up a fork discussion *lol*).

Phantom · 10-12-2005, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOutkastDev

This thread needs to return to the topic. Users found continuing the rant that has ocurred to this point with be receiving a temporary ban.

Anyways, just some speculation here but... I'm betting someone has a project they're working on and is coordinating with Ryan to release it when RunUO 2.0 is released.

But hey, I'm just speculating like I always do nowadays. I know Ryan has suprises and we've not gotten one in a while.

I know who it is and what he is making

Bmzx007 · 10-13-2005, 03:07 AM

Ive got a pretty good idea, Outkast gave away too many hints :P

darkstorm · 10-13-2005, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmzx007

Actually, for the majority of the time, EA only updates the logon keys for each version of the client. The encryption scheme as a whole has only changed 3-4 times during UO's time on this earth.

The encyrption scheme has never changed since Client 2.0.3.
All they update are the login encryption keys (as you said). Those can be extracted (manually) in about 2-3 minutes. But i think there are automated tools for that already.

Quote:

They could (Or someone else could) easily implement something like Sphere did, Where the logon keys are read from an XML file (Sphere just used the INI) and then shard admins could get thier own logon keys, or they could be released on the forum for people to get.

Since RunUO has "open" Scripts i suppose putting the keys there would also be sufficient.

Quote:

Perhaps even offering both schemes Unencrypted and Encrypted (Like Sphere at the moment) would be something for the future.

Actually I don't know anyone who doesn't do that ;-)

Phantom · 10-13-2005, 06:58 AM

Is there any point in supporting the Encyrption?

I mean, its only a pain, because you have to updated it on every client update. Which means the admin has to know what the hell he is doing to support that feature, and I doubt its possible to support both at the sametime ( never thought about it long enough ).

darkstorm · 10-13-2005, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

Is there any point in supporting the Encyrption?

Yes. You don't have to rely on third party software that you as an admin cannot control to allow your clients to log in.

Quote:

I mean, its only a pain, because you have to updated it on every client update. Which means the admin has to know what the hell he is doing to support that feature,

Extracting the login keys is trivial compared to removing the entire encryption. Since the algorithm for encrypting the login data hasn't changed since 2.0.3 there should be an auto-detection algorithm somewhere (I just didn't look for it but i remember that there should be a program to do this) that is able to extract the login keys from all clients since 2.0.3.

Quote:

and I doubt its possible to support both at the sametime ( never thought about it long enough ).

Wolfpack does that, Sphere does that, etc. etc.
Supporting unencrypted and encrypted clients at the same time is rather trivial. In fact you can switch either one on and off (I.e. limit to encrypted clients only, unencrypted clients only, encrypted clients with a certain encryption only etc. etc.)

Phantom · 10-13-2005, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Yes. You don't have to rely on third party software that you as an admin cannot control to allow your clients to log in.

Problem solved, Razor will always work, as long as the encryption method doesn't change. If it does, you still would have the issue, but your reason isn't a good one.

darkstorm · 10-13-2005, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

Problem solved, Razor will always work, as long as the encryption method doesn't change. If it does, you still would have the issue, but your reason isn't a good one.

I suppose if the reason is good or not isn't up to you Phantom. Since not everyone wants to _require_ their player base to install 3rd party applications from another site. In addition to that some shards who tend to customize their content a lot want to have their custom patchers and a consistent appeareance to their player base. Using third party programs for the basic login procedure that require additional user configuration is definetly not what those shards want. Certainly for some shards that is acceptable, especially if they do not customize OSI content at all and don't require additional downloads. However, there is a considerable amount of shards out there who want to have full control over the login process and that definetly includes encryption removal programs.

LordHogFred · 10-13-2005, 11:11 AM

I used to use encrypted clients with the old Emu I used (NoX Wizard) but now that I have my UO Gateway account all set up and working properly I have no problems with my custom content or login procedures. UO Gateway is a brilliant tool and it saves admins a lot of time trying to tell players how to log on to their shard. Just sign your shard up to the UOG listing, copy the url link to your UOG listing and post it on your website. Done, people just need to download UOG and click a link. I used to have to post detailed deocuments on how to use things like UO-Rice and Ignition before I used UOG.

darkstorm · 10-13-2005, 12:03 PM

Quote:

I used to have to post detailed deocuments on how to use things like UO-Rice and Ignition before I used UOG.

Which you don't have to use either if the server supports the clients encryption natively. Well. Thats beside the point. If you like using UOGateway noone stops you from doing that. However. If you want to use an incremental patching system that requires as little user interaction as possible and still maintains tiny patch sizes (hence incremental) UOGateway won't help you. And instead of writing your own encryption removal tool and maintaining it (Since there are no real opensource tools out there with constant updates), writing Encryption support for the server once and then using an automated process to extract the keys seems more practical to me.
I am working on it anyway. Although buffer management in c# seems like a pain in the ass to me. But thats probably due to my lack of experience with the language.

TheOutkastDev · 10-13-2005, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstorm

Which you don't have to use either if the server supports the clients encryption natively. Well. Thats beside the point. If you like using UOGateway noone stops you from doing that. However. If you want to use an incremental patching system that requires as little user interaction as possible and still maintains tiny patch sizes (hence incremental) UOGateway won't help you. And instead of writing your own encryption removal tool and maintaining it (Since there are no real opensource tools out there with constant updates), writing Encryption support for the server once and then using an automated process to extract the keys seems more practical to me.
I am working on it anyway. Although buffer management in c# seems like a pain in the ass to me. But thats probably due to my lack of experience with the language.

DarkStorm, I guess you missed my post but I'll restate it anyway.

People continue to use UOGateway because it allows them to distribute patches to users who wish to login to their shard, and saves the user the trouble of editing their login.cfg and moving custom .mul files to the directory.

Supporting encryption is redundant because the application that we rely on to do the above also has the capability to remove the encryption. I see no distinct advantage to supporting encryption.

cfaust · 10-13-2005, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOutkastDev

DarkStorm, I guess you missed my post but I'll restate it anyway.

People continue to use UOGateway because it allows them to distribute patches to users who wish to login to their shard, and saves the user the trouble of editing their login.cfg and moving custom .mul files to the directory.

Supporting encryption is redundant because the application that we rely on to do the above also has the capability to remove the encryption. I see no distinct advantage to supporting encryption.

I have to agree; I am thankful for what I receive from RunUO, if you want encryption, code it, submit it.

UOGateway will always serve a purpose, it enables people to visit more than one shard that might have custom mul files, without fear of copying over the wrong files that let them log in elsewhere.

I don't see what people have against UOGateway, it's a very good product; and the only thing I can see wrong would be the folks that are upset about being deactivated or deleted from the UOG listing because they can't follow a few simple and clear cut rules.

We need to get this thread back on track folks, we are falling off the rails here at an incredibly high rate.

We don't know what features are included with the next release(s), let's not speculate or make requests in this thread, that is not what Ryan intended.

bzk90 · 10-13-2005, 10:00 PM

@ cfaust, the reason many are upset is because the poor management (pendragon) the lack of attention due to fixit being VERY busy (perfectly understandable but still a valid point) and the fact that nearly the entire support community is made up of supporters of runuo forks (runuo re, sunuo, and the one "link of hyrule" is puting together)

the community is horrible, its been horrible for some time (mainly since shay and drake left leaving the community in the hands of pendragon who is an avid supporter of runuo re

a community that goes to shit cannot offer decent support, which is why people want a stable replacement

back on topic now please?

ethan3 · 10-15-2005, 06:38 PM

I greedily await anything the RunUO team can give us. You guys rock!!

cfaust · 10-18-2005, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethan3

I greedily await anything the RunUO team can give us. You guys rock!!

This is by far; probably one thing that 'almost everyone' can agree with in this thread.

Admin God · 10-18-2005, 08:13 AM

Agreed. I prob check 3-4 times a day to either see if there is new news posted about it or if it has been released.... Can't wait

(twittles thumbs while rocking back and forth "soon it shall come")

10-13-2005, 11:11 AM	#143 (permalink)
LordHogFred Forum Expert Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: UK, Essex Age: 20 Posts: 1,166	I used to use encrypted clients with the old Emu I used (NoX Wizard) but now that I have my UO Gateway account all set up and working properly I have no problems with my custom content or login procedures. UO Gateway is a brilliant tool and it saves admins a lot of time trying to tell players how to log on to their shard. Just sign your shard up to the UOG listing, copy the url link to your UOG listing and post it on your website. Done, people just need to download UOG and click a link. I used to have to post detailed deocuments on how to use things like UO-Rice and Ignition before I used UOG. __________________ It is not the hand that creates worlds, It is the mind controlling it ! The New Dawn Network

10-12-2005, 06:29 AM	#126 (permalink)
Ankhesentapemkah Forum Expert Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 344	ML seriously unbalances PvP if you have AoS rules active... Instakill archery shots, unbalanced weapons, twohanded daggers and onehanded staffs and so on.

10-12-2005, 05:36 PM	#131 (permalink)
kethoth Forum Expert Join Date: Jul 2003 Age: 22 Posts: 253	hopefully the release will be soon (not going to ask for a date because asayre will just add a day =P) and ryan nor any other runuo dev has mentioned making uogateway obsolete so please dont mention that as that RUMOR has already caused some unwanted trouble

10-12-2005, 08:04 PM	#134 (permalink)
Bmzx007 Forum Novice Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Zealand Age: 21 Posts: 151	Actually, for the majority of the time, EA only updates the logon keys for each version of the client. The encryption scheme as a whole has only changed 3-4 times during UO's time on this earth. They could (Or someone else could) easily implement something like Sphere did, Where the logon keys are read from an XML file (Sphere just used the INI) and then shard admins could get thier own logon keys, or they could be released on the forum for people to get. Perhaps even offering both schemes Unencrypted and Encrypted (Like Sphere at the moment) would be something for the future.

10-13-2005, 03:07 AM	#137 (permalink)
Bmzx007 Forum Novice Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Zealand Age: 21 Posts: 151	Ive got a pretty good idea, Outkast gave away too many hints :P

10-13-2005, 06:58 AM	#139 (permalink)
Phantom Account Terminated Join Date: Sep 2002 Age: 26 Posts: 3,846	Is there any point in supporting the Encyrption? I mean, its only a pain, because you have to updated it on every client update. Which means the admin has to know what the hell he is doing to support that feature, and I doubt its possible to support both at the sametime ( never thought about it long enough ).

10-13-2005, 10:00 PM	#147 (permalink)
bzk90 Master of the Internet Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Nevada Age: 18 Posts: 6,630	@ cfaust, the reason many are upset is because the poor management (pendragon) the lack of attention due to fixit being VERY busy (perfectly understandable but still a valid point) and the fact that nearly the entire support community is made up of supporters of runuo forks (runuo re, sunuo, and the one "link of hyrule" is puting together) the community is horrible, its been horrible for some time (mainly since shay and drake left leaving the community in the hands of pendragon who is an avid supporter of runuo re a community that goes to shit cannot offer decent support, which is why people want a stable replacement back on topic now please?

10-15-2005, 06:38 PM	#148 (permalink)
ethan3 Newbie Join Date: Nov 2003 Age: 30 Posts: 68	I greedily await anything the RunUO team can give us. You guys rock!!

10-18-2005, 08:13 AM	#150 (permalink)
Admin God Forum Expert Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South Bend, Indiana Age: 23 Posts: 1,588	Agreed. I prob check 3-4 times a day to either see if there is new news posted about it or if it has been released.... Can't wait (twittles thumbs while rocking back and forth "soon it shall come")