Microsoft makes Visual Studio Express Free!!!

[Planet_Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Java sucks.

Sun Sucks.

Have to agree on that. I never saw anything perform as slow as Java.
**edit**
I'm taking SAP as example here
**endedit**

Linux is a great server OS and until the innovate rather than duplicate they will never gain desktop share.

This is totaly wrong tho. It is MS that duplicates. They already have a desktop share, try to find a security expert without at least one linux desktop.

The ONLY 2 reasons that Linux doesnt OWN the market are called DirectX dependant games, and the fact that everybody gets windows and a re-install cd with a new computer.

[David]

Originally Posted by Planet_Jeroen

...and the fact that everybody gets windows ... with a new computer.

or could it be that new pc's come with Windows because, well that is what the people buying them want?

[wieganka]

The ONLY 2 reasons that Linux doesnt OWN the market are called DirectX dependant games, and the fact that everybody gets windows and a re-install cd with a new computer.

I would say that there are more than 2 reasons. I tried Linux, and hated it. Why? The programs you are able to get for Linux just aren't as professionally put together as Windows programs. Plain and simple. They may be free, but you get what you pay for, as many have said in the past.

[Nochte]

Originally Posted by David

or could it be that new pc's come with Windows because, well that is what the people buying them want?

maybe it's the agreements that they have with microsoft to offset cost of hardware?

[orgis]

so whats better visual studio or sharp development?

[wieganka]

Originally Posted by orgis

so whats better visual studio or sharp development?

That's up to you to decide, personally, I like Visual Studio, but you may like Sharp better. Since they're free, try them both out.

[orgis]

Originally Posted by wieganka

That's up to you to decide, personally, I like Visual Studio, but you may like Sharp better. Since they're free, try them both out.

Aye i,ve just installed visual studio so i'm away to read and follow "TMSTKSBK"'s FAQ on using it with runuo

[noobie]

Java = C#

J2EE >> .NET

Eclipse (the best IDE ever) >>> MS. VISUAL STUDIO ALL VERSIONS

.

[yarex]

Java > C#? [Java << C# - c# is better language my friend]

J2EE >> .NET? [ J2EE <= .NET .net framework isnt the best, but also J2EE isn't so exceptionally good either, the list would be long - from better .net garbage collector, to variable types.... ]

Eclipse (the best IDE ever) >>> MS. VISUAL STUDIO ALL VERSIONS?
[i hope that this is mentioned as a bad joke. M$ VS has it's flies, but i would prefer to use Eclipse (the best IDE ever) == MS. VISUAL STUDIO ALL VERSIONS]

Anyone who disagree, please place arguments, not flames

[TMSTKSBK]

JAVA MUST DIE!!!!

no kidding, yo.
I hate that language. So worthless...Surely there's a better way to do whatever it does. If you like Java...well...have fun spending too much time doing too little.

[noobie]

Originally Posted by yarex

Java > C#? [Java << C# - c# is better language my friend]

J2EE >> .NET? [ J2EE <= .NET .net framework isnt the best, but also J2EE isn't so exceptionally good either, the list would be long - from better .net garbage collector, to variable types.... ]

Eclipse (the best IDE ever) >>> MS. VISUAL STUDIO ALL VERSIONS?
[i hope that this is mentioned as a bad joke. M$ VS has it's flies, but i would prefer to use Eclipse (the best IDE ever) == MS. VISUAL STUDIO ALL VERSIONS]

Anyone who disagree, please place arguments, not flames

read carefully my friend

i said Java = C# since syntaxes of both languages are the same. anyone can write some code in either one, also can write in the other languge. (just change the class names) even most classes has same methods.


J2EE vs .NET => well, apperantly you have no idea about J2EE. It is not the framework that Java run on, it is a kind of software framework that facilitates a good level of programming design with numerous tools (almost all of them are free).

About the IDE part, I have been using both of them (Eclipse & VS ) for some years.
-7/8 years VS 6.0 (i agree with the unintellisense part with C++ hehe)
-4/5 years VS.NET ( most current versions)
-2,5 years Eclipse

VS.NET cannot compete with Eclipse in any way. Eclipse has any feature which any developer could demand. And since it is a plugin based IDE and also opensource, there are numerous plugins available out there for every kind of work.

If you do not use Eclipse, do not assume anything..

[TMSTKSBK]

Bah. I've used Eclipse. Hated all twenty minutes of it.

[noobie]

that doesnt change the fact that it is better

google for some comparisons:
eclipse vs vs.net

some articles from the first page:
read yourself:

http://www.ryanlowe.ca/blog/archives...vs_eclipse.php

http://www.manageability.org/manageabilityWiki/Eclipse

[Planet_Jeroen]

Originally Posted by David

or could it be that new pc's come with Windows because, well that is what the people buying them want?

Sure... back in 1990, when you bought a computer, you got it with windows pre-installed. There wasnt a computer around without it, unless you bought the parts, and assembled it yourself. Near noone had a internet connection and IF they had one it would take forever to download another OS.

Very few people had a need to learn about computers. The ones that did, did so for one of 3 reasons:

-Profession: These people usualy had skills in Unix and a growing number of NT3.51 and novell. The last where growing since near any moron could perform tasks that required skill on Unix.

-Game: They all ran a dos >= 5.4 with or without win 3.1(1) later win95/98
Linux had his own games, mostly ports, most buggy, and few played them anyways

-Hobby: Same as game; they needed a notepad and a spreadsheet. Why bother learning about a computers inner workings.

The later 2 grew up, and companies needed computers for text processing and other office needs to keep up with growing demands. Near everyone knew windows by that time, so that was the easy choise. People NOT been in contact with computers till they encountered them at work, learned windows.
etc.

Game development catched on... where was the market.. well windows is what everyone had.. so let's develope for windows.

This created the kinda lawsuits that MS faced over the years.

[marvin3634]

You may call me a newb, I guess i couldnt deny it. when it came to scripts. C# didnt even come to my mind when i was trying to put a armor or what have you together. I honestly thought until about a week ago it was just a set of instructions that were of this server, not a language that is used for creating a whole program lol. Now that being said, i seen this article and that is where the humor really comes in. A few guys here said nice editor , so I in turn read a line or two and went to the links . Upon downloading it i started to read the tutorial and went on from their and now am half way c#2005 for dummies. Never scripted before in my life and am now enjoying it more than playing OU and Owning a shard. But the funny part looking back is the people that referred to visual c# as an editor and have not taken the golden opportunity to realize the potential for this appy as the key to making what one could only start to imagine.Not just dumping out a simple artie or a teleporter, But an entire core. A whole new distr of their very own or in my case a client opener that links UO client directly to my shard W/O the user having to configure it. completely skipping OUG.

To you who have not figured out that this is not just an editor and instead is a complete compiler. Please take a stab at the free education offered by this and do something truly remarkable .......Create.

As for my spelling and puctuation microsoft has not yet released "Visual English" yet ..lol.

[TMSTKSBK]

Originally Posted by marvin3634

As for my spelling and puctuation microsoft has not yet released "Visual English" yet ..lol.

You get a cookie, just for that comment.

[Arex]

J2EE vs .NET

I am working on a governamental company like J2EE developer and i can say that .NET vs. J2EE isnt really a fight, all applications are done with J2EE (we have 50 guys with J2EE abilities and 5 guys with .NET abilities and we only use to .NET guys for wrapp applications... ), one of the main reasons is that J2EE grows faster that .NET and big companies use Oracle like database, and Oracle use Java integrated for almost all and his OC4J server dont work very good with .NET

or u are thinking that Microsoft SQL server is better that Oracle? it would be like a joke

[marvin3634]

It started as a fact. Fact is that C# Express is now free. Fact is that the reason this is relevent, is RUO is written in C#. Fact is Java and other codes being better or worse have no bearing on this issue. Fact is if you want to write scripts for RUO then you should LEARN C#. DEBATE IT IF YOU WANT. IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACTS. THE DEBATE DOES NOT MATTER!

[yarex]

Oracle vs Mssql fight.... i think that both have it's advantages and disadvantages. To get the best of the oracle you have to learn a lot of tweaking and maintanance can be a nightmare.

Mssql is much much easier to maintain, still can hold a lot of data (nice example is monster, where some tables have gigabites and it still works at usable speed.)

Also to be honest, mssql has it's disadvantages too, like weird limitations on amount of columns in the table, limit 8k chars on varchar type, 4k on nvarchar, (text is bigger, but binary type).....

so it really depends on what project are you going to develop and what system developers know better and fits the requirement.

Also regarding java vs c#.
As a language..... if you take syntax and pure structure, c# > java. If anyone is interested, i can provide list of language constructs that c# CAN and java CAN'T.

Both languages are compiled into meta-code that can be ported to other platforms, java is here longer, so has been ported to multiple platform.

Also microsoft wants to earn money, that'z why with c# is more tighly linked with m$ platform, but c# as a language is imho still better.

Try to type c# vs/and java compare and read multiple responses from multiple people. Most of them will say c# > java, even that java is used as primary language on many banking and other systems,

[noobie]

what I like about C# and .NEt, it is a full package. i mean the distro package includes most of the libraries anyone needs.

but while working in java, you need to find some of them for yourself and you should better know what you are looking for. if you know what are doing, you can find more than you need, more than C# & .NEt has.

Originally Posted by yarex

Also regarding java vs c#.
As a language..... if you take syntax and pure structure, c# > java. If anyone is interested, i can provide list of language constructs that c# CAN and java CAN'T.

well, most of that list is not valid with java 1.5 (including C# 2.0 features)

[Chrono13]

This is the greatest tool ive every used. I was using SharpDevelop before this and since i started using Visual Studio i now realize that SharpDevelop is crap. Its simple, easy to use, easy to understand.

I love that it reads only errors that RunUO server.exe would find so i don't have all these random lists of syntax errors that runuo would consider as wrong.

[yarex]

http://www.bentuser.com/article.aspx?ID=323

and

http://geekswithblogs.net/pakistan/a.../18/12789.aspx

(java 1.5 finally handled to implement some features that had c# 1.0 some time ago.....)

[noobie]

I found a response to that article by chance.

http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t54616.html

read replies also..

[dspain75]

Originally Posted by AxEsLoCkEd

Well i was a notepad person too but since ive started using ms visual studio 2002 i cant quit using ms studio well now i have Visual Studio 2003 Enterprise Architect and Visual Studio 2005 Team Edition Beta from on my laptop and Visual Studio 2005 Team Edition on my pc

yeah thats what i use for all my companies releases, that architect studio 2003 is very nice.

[yarex]

Well, visual studio has some nice features, but i dont like the direction, which it evolves.

Microsoft is trying to remove programmer from real coding and remove his total control from code by givin him another and another layer of classes or features, that look more like dragging and dropping items on the page then real coding and proper using OOP techniques.

Also vs2005 is UNBELIEVABLY slow and memory consumpting (even simple web opened in vs takes like 80-90 mb of memory, god knowz what everything it loads.)

Unfortunately, there isn't yet any equal opensource alternative on the market.