Shared Source Common Language Infrastructure - RunUO

cmate · 10-23-2003, 04:49 PM

I am a newbie, so tell me -- is it possible that the Microsoft Shared Source Common Language Infrastructure will run RunUO?

This is supposed to allow C# to compile and even certain .net exe's to run on platforms such as linux and Mac OS X...

?

Phantom · 10-23-2003, 05:22 PM

I think you miss understand....what your talking about

But to answer your question RunUO does not work with Mono. So at this time your only choice to compile and run RunUO is .NET Framework which only works on Windows.

cmate · 10-23-2003, 05:44 PM

You are right, I probably do not know what I am talking about...
However, I know im not talking about Mono (http://www.go-mono.com/).
I am talking about Microsoft SSCLI (http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/sscli/).

This is the link that made me think MAYBE it works with RunUO:
http://www.jasonziegler.com/archives/000023.html

But being that I am a definate newbie to .net, I probably just dont understand what I am looking at yet, so I am hoping someone can explain...

Phantom · 10-23-2003, 06:00 PM

[code:1]The Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) is the ECMA standard that describes the core of the .NET Framework world. The Shared Source CLI is a compressed archive of the source code to a working implementation of the ECMA CLI and the ECMA C# language specification.

This implementation builds and runs on Windows XP, the FreeBSD operating system, and Mac OS X 10.2. It is released under a shared source initiative. Please see the accompanying license.

The Shared Source CLI goes beyond the printed specification of the ECMA standards, providing a working implementation for CLI developers to explore and understand. It will be of interest to academics and researchers wishing to teach and explore modern programming language concepts, and to .NET developers interested in how the technology works.

Features
The Shared Source CLI archive contains the following technologies in source code form:
An implementation of the runtime for the Common Language Infrastructure (ECMA-335) that builds and runs on Windows XP, the FreeBSD operating system, and Mac OS X 10.2.
Compilers that work with the Shared Source CLI for C# (ECMA-334) and JScript.
Development tools for working with the Shared Source CLI such as assembler/disassemblers (ilasm, ildasm), a debugger (cordbg), metadata introspection (metainfo), and other utilities.
The Platform Adaptation Layer (PAL) used to port the Shared Source CLI from Windows XP to FreeBSD and Mac OS X.
Build environment tools (nmake, build, and others).
Documentation for the implementation.
Test suites used to verify the implementation.
A rich set of sample code and tools for working with the Shared Source CLI.

New in this Release
A more detailed list of what's new in this release is included in the FAQ (below).
Support for Mac OS X 10.2.
Additional code clean-up and bug fixes.
Debugger improvements.
Class reference documentation (separate archive) and additional samples.
Build system improvements and additional test cases and tool improvements.

What can I do with the Shared Source CLI?
There is a wealth of programming language technology in the Shared Source CLI. It is likely to be of interest to a wide audience, including:
Developers interested in the internal workings of the .NET Framework can explore this implementation of the CLI to see how garbage collection works, JIT compilation and verification is handled, security protocols implemented, and the organization of frameworks and virtual object systems.
Teachers and researchers doing work with advanced compiler technology. Research projects into language extensions, JIT optimizations, and modern garbage collection all have a basis in the Shared Source CLI. Modern compiler courses can be based on the C# or JScript languages implemented on the CLI.
People developing their own CLI implementations will find the Shared Source CLI an indispensable guide and adjunct to the ECMA standards.

Shared Source Common Language Infrastructure 1.0 Release
English

Download files below

Related Resources

Article: The Microsoft Shared Source CLI Implementation
FAQ and Release Notes for This Download
Microsoft Shared Source CLI Newsgroup
Home Page for Microsoft Shared Source Initiative

System Requirements
Supported Operating Systems: Windows XP

On Windows you will need:
Windows XP or Windows 2000. We recommend Windows XP.
Microsoft Visual Studio .NET.
Perl 5.6 (available from http://www.perl.org.)
Archiving utility of choice—WinZip or other.
256 MB of memory.
One gigabyte of free disk space.

On FreeBSD you will need:
FreeBSD 4.7 (recommended).
The developer distribution installed.
512 MB of memory.
One gigabyte of free disk space.

On Mac OS X you will need:
Mac OS X version 10.2.
Apple Developer Tools.
The BSD subsystem installed.
256 MB memory, 512 MB (recommended).
One gigabyte of free disk space. [/code:1]

<sigh>....

Rigmore · 10-23-2003, 06:48 PM

...this question does have some merit.

The point behind the CLI initiative was to allow portability between environments, as well as foster development skills in multiple environments...among a host of other goals.

As long as:

A) The Mac and BSD frameworks are delivered to support the standard namespaces, classes, objects, methods, and properties, meaning that we as developers don't CARE what's behind it, just that these items work the same in all 3 environments.

B) The RunUO core (that the general RunUO community doesn't see) is compliant with these standards themselves, and

C) Microsoft hasn't put any non-standard functions/features into the framework themselves.

Then there is no good reason why this should not eventually be RunUO capable. We won't have an opportunity to see this until full .NET implementation in other environments - the common misconception is that since MS was the first out with their framework, they're pushing it, but the fact of the matter is the standards were jointly developed.

You're obviously a good developer, Phantom, but you might want to try some work on the people skills.

Rigmore

**psz** · 10-23-2003, 06:58 PM

Who needs people skills on a tech support forum? ;->

But yes, IN THEORY, RunUO COULD work on Mac once a viable .Net Framework is made available (*NIX has Mono, dunno if there's an EQ on Mac).

Phantom · 10-23-2003, 07:08 PM

This isn't what you guys think it is...

Besides I tried to explain that he was miss informed about what this was actually is.

but you have to butt in and tell me to be nicer? wasn't even rude, I tried to avoid a pointless converation... but NOO!

From what I can tell thats just the "group" "project" "resources" to bring .NET to other OS's as I doubt its anything but that.

Rigmore · 10-23-2003, 07:16 PM

How so, Phantom?

It's a specification for a standard that outside of the MS world hasn't been implemented fully...yet, and if it is, the bald truth is that there will be differences between the platforms.

In a perfect world, if all conditions are met, it will work out.

Granted, the original question was if this is available today, which it isn't, but that doesn't negate the fact that this is a good example of the type of situation the standard was developed for.

Swaileh · 10-23-2003, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

The Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) is the ECMA standard that describes the core of the .NET Framework world...

...this implementation builds and runs on Windows XP, the FreeBSD operating system, and Mac OS X 10.2...

System Requirements
Supported Operating Systems: Windows XP

On Windows you will need:
Windows XP or Windows 2000. We recommend Windows XP.
Microsoft Visual Studio .NET.
Perl 5.6 (available from http://www.perl.org.)
Archiving utility of choice—WinZip or other.
256 MB of memory.
One gigabyte of free disk space.

On FreeBSD you will need:
FreeBSD 4.7 (recommended).
The developer distribution installed.
512 MB of memory.
One gigabyte of free disk space.

On Mac OS X you will need:
Mac OS X version 10.2.
Apple Developer Tools.
The BSD subsystem installed.
256 MB memory, 512 MB (recommended).
One gigabyte of free disk space.

Oh my god.. I agree with Phantom!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

This isn't what you guys think it is...

Rigmore · 10-23-2003, 07:31 PM

Quoting 400 pages of text and ending it with a pseudosarcastic remark such as "<sigh>..." is not being helpful. Taking the time to explain something is. It's obvious from his contributions Phantom is not likely being irritating purposefully, but then again, this type of response is akin to saying "lookit me - I know more than you do, but I'm not gonna share!, whether he intends that or not.

Secondly, my point was that although the original question was in the present tense, if conditions allow, future tense could very well be a reality...which would be good for the community as a whole.

As for carrying this on, it's called a Discussion Forum...if I wanted to hear "Are too" and "Are not!" commentary, I could go to to the sandbox at my children's school.

Swaileh · 10-23-2003, 07:40 PM

Very well, if you must take that route.. to say something could become reality in a set of given ideal conditions is less helpful than what Phantom posted, which was completely helpful had you stopped to read it. It clearly states the function of the CLI, in respect to other operating systems. If we must go the route of ideal conditions and guessing, then why not simply state that..

Someday, when the conditions allow it and certain bugs are not present, RunUO can be modified to work with any operating system in existance, independant of the .NET framework.

..is that helpful? No. Is that realistic? Portions are marginally realistic, the rest is total bullshit. Phantom posted a total of (Estimation follows) 75 lines of text outlining the purpose and applications of the CLI, whereas all you've done is wasted my and Phantom's time clearing it up even further than should be necessary. If you so wish it, I will draw you a diagram using Crayolas, but that will waste further time that could be spent finishing up my Quest generator.

Rigmore · 10-23-2003, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Very well, if you must take that route.. to say something could become reality in a set of given ideal conditions is less helpful than what Phantom posted, which was completely helpful had you stopped to read it. It clearly states the function of the CLI, in respect to other operating systems. If we must go the route of ideal conditions and guessing, then why not simply state that..

Sure, it was helpful, but simply regurgitating information the originator had already read, and then "commented" with a "<sigh>...".

Quote:

Someday, when the conditions allow it and certain bugs are not present, RunUO can be modified to work with any operating system in existance, independant of the .NET framework.

First of all, the kit is a release of compilers for 3 operating systems, exposing the underlying framework in it's current iteration. To say that it is not realistic is misleading, and while you're busy coding away, the market is driving real development towards a real-world implementation of this standard.

Quote:

all you've done is wasted my and Phantom's time clearing it up even further than should be necessary. If you so wish it, I will draw you a diagram using Crayolas, but that will waste further time that could be spent finishing up my Quest generator

So go do that...quite frankly, a lot of time IS wasted by those trying to catch up and learn, simply by wading through non-informational and non-discussional posts that quite frankly would belong on a wall full of Crayola drawings.

And by the way, just so there's no mistake - the work that both you and Phantom have done is well recieved and appreciated by the community, but there are a lot of people who are put off from making similar contributions by the sarcastic and unhelpful responses.

**psz** · 10-23-2003, 08:05 PM

Then those people need to learn to deal. Guess what? There are more people in this world MUCH more harsh than Phantom than a lot of people like to admit. Phantom is quite mild compared to, say, Executives, Managers, Personel Directors, and most bosses at jobs. If you can't handle the way me, or Phantom, or Swaileh, or Krazy Zack, or Ryan get frustrated or whatnot, you're not going to deal well with higher ups IRL. That's a fact of life.

Back to the topic on hand: The SSCLI has been in the works for YEARS and nothing has come of it. It was first tossed around in 1998. It was then re-examined in 2000. When .Net was released, it was to be the Final Working Standard for it (That was well over a year ago).

Yes, it has merit. No it's not likely to be useful in the coming year or so.

Swaileh · 10-23-2003, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psz

Back to the topic on hand: The SSCLI has been in the works for YEARS and nothing has come of it. It was first tossed around in 1998. It was then re-examined in 2000. When .Net was released, it was to be the Final Working Standard for it (That was well over a year ago).

Yes, it has merit. No it's not likely to be useful in the coming year or so.

Agreed. In fact, I was under the impression .NET was going to be OS independant within a year of its release, which has yet to occur.. and judging by Microsoft's joint venturing policy (Buying out the other companies) I highly doubt anything will come of this within the next few years.. Microsoft doesn't play well with others..

Phantom · 10-23-2003, 10:16 PM

After i posted the quote all i hear is "BLAH BLAH BLAH" :twisted:

Philantrop · 10-24-2003, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

After i posted the quote all i hear is "BLAH BLAH BLAH" :twisted:

Then you should have your ears checked.

@psz: This is a hobby and supposed to be fun. Telling us of the working world (which at last some of us probably know) is simply a wrong comparison.

**psz** · 10-24-2003, 08:39 AM

Let's say you build models of Formula 1 cars as a hobby.

Would you
A: Read the instructions, and use the correct paint and cement, and have a good idea of the car you're trying to build, or would you

B: Discard the instructions, and use masking tape, and NEVER see the car prior?

Which do you think would make for a better result?

Let's say you want a hobby of painting the field outside your house...

Do you

A: Surround your self with pictures of the place you want to paint, get the correct brushes, canvas and oil/water/acrylic paints, or do you

B: Move across country so you can't SEE the field, get some house paint, some rollers, and start painting on writing paper?

Again, which do YOU think will make for a better result?

Even though something is a hobby does NOT mean you should not try to do it right. If doing it right means asking a professional (Or at least a semi-pro), you'd better expect them to point out where you've missed the basics at. A semi-pro painter will laugh at you if not slam the door in your face if you asked advice while holding house paints and rollers in your hand.

Philantrop · 10-24-2003, 11:34 AM

I agree with you when it comes to trying to be professional in what you do. I disagree, though, and that was what I originally meant, with your remark about RL superiors compared to Phantom and company.

I don't like the way Phantom sometimes responds to others. And I will tell him so. This is completely independent, though, from how I behave in my job. (Though I'm glad to be in a position where I may speak my mind freely.) Just the fact that someone can't stand the way some people here treat others, without respect especially, doesn't mean it will be the same in real life.

On the contrary, if I spoke my mind here freely about people taking out their frustrations on others I would probably get banned fairly soon - free speech ends early sometimes. :-)

Swaileh · 10-24-2003, 12:11 PM

*Tries Phantom's method* Blah blah.. wow nice.. it really works.. tunes out the flood of idiocy and the stench of bridges being burned..

Phantom · 10-24-2003, 12:26 PM

Learned long ago, Just to ignore the fools. dumbasses, and people who are not my friends.

You can place yourself in any one of those three groups of people ( talking to the person who seems dislike how I answerd the question ).

Everyone else were cool, until you do the same at least

**psz** · 10-24-2003, 02:44 PM

My point was that you WILL have to deal with people with that sort of attitude IRL, so get used to it HERE AND NOW where it's much easier.

Kobold · 10-24-2003, 08:29 PM

AMD ownz you!

**psz** · 10-24-2003, 08:32 PM

Ok... And what, praytell, does that have to do with this thread at all?

Swaileh · 10-24-2003, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobold

AMD ownz you!

Kobold doesn't have a clue what a 'forum' or a 'thread' is, apparantly.. thus further proving Ryan's point.. AMD is terrible, and it's users don't have enough intelligence to purchase otherwise.. :>

**David** · 10-25-2003, 01:10 AM

Just... don't let this turn into a flame war, on people or processors...

*shakes his head and turns away*

10-23-2003, 04:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
cmate Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 72	Shared Source Common Language Infrastructure I am a newbie, so tell me -- is it possible that the Microsoft Shared Source Common Language Infrastructure will run RunUO? This is supposed to allow C# to compile and even certain .net exe's to run on platforms such as linux and Mac OS X... ?

10-23-2003, 05:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
cmate Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 72	You are right.. You are right, I probably do not know what I am talking about... However, I know im not talking about Mono (http://www.go-mono.com/). I am talking about Microsoft SSCLI (http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/sscli/). This is the link that made me think MAYBE it works with RunUO: http://www.jasonziegler.com/archives/000023.html But being that I am a definate newbie to .net, I probably just dont understand what I am looking at yet, so I am hoping someone can explain...

10-23-2003, 06:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
Rigmore Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 23	Actually... ...this question does have some merit. The point behind the CLI initiative was to allow portability between environments, as well as foster development skills in multiple environments...among a host of other goals. As long as: A) The Mac and BSD frameworks are delivered to support the standard namespaces, classes, objects, methods, and properties, meaning that we as developers don't CARE what's behind it, just that these items work the same in all 3 environments. B) The RunUO core (that the general RunUO community doesn't see) is compliant with these standards themselves, and C) Microsoft hasn't put any non-standard functions/features into the framework themselves. Then there is no good reason why this should not eventually be RunUO capable. We won't have an opportunity to see this until full .NET implementation in other environments - the common misconception is that since MS was the first out with their framework, they're pushing it, but the fact of the matter is the standards were jointly developed. You're obviously a good developer, Phantom, but you might want to try some work on the people skills. Rigmore

10-23-2003, 06:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
psz UO Gamers: Demise Administrator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Swamp Age: 29 Posts: 10,800	Who needs people skills on a tech support forum? ;-> But yes, IN THEORY, RunUO COULD work on Mac once a viable .Net Framework is made available (NIX has Mono, dunno if there's an EQ on Mac). __________________ psz* Demise' Creator (Retired) The RunUO.com Forum Moderator Team Former Official RunUO Scripter (Retired) Websites: My 360 Blog My Gaming Site(Old Link) My Gaming Site(New Link)

10-23-2003, 07:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
Rigmore Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 23	How So? How so, Phantom? It's a specification for a standard that outside of the MS world hasn't been implemented fully...yet, and if it is, the bald truth is that there will be differences between the platforms. In a perfect world, if all conditions are met, it will work out. Granted, the original question was if this is available today, which it isn't, but that doesn't negate the fact that this is a good example of the type of situation the standard was developed for.

10-23-2003, 05:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
Phantom Account Terminated Join Date: Sep 2002 Age: 26 Posts: 3,846	I think you miss understand....what your talking about But to answer your question RunUO does not work with Mono. So at this time your only choice to compile and run RunUO is .NET Framework which only works on Windows.

10-23-2003, 06:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
Phantom Account Terminated Join Date: Sep 2002 Age: 26 Posts: 3,846	[code:1]The Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) is the ECMA standard that describes the core of the .NET Framework world. The Shared Source CLI is a compressed archive of the source code to a working implementation of the ECMA CLI and the ECMA C# language specification. This implementation builds and runs on Windows XP, the FreeBSD operating system, and Mac OS X 10.2. It is released under a shared source initiative. Please see the accompanying license. The Shared Source CLI goes beyond the printed specification of the ECMA standards, providing a working implementation for CLI developers to explore and understand. It will be of interest to academics and researchers wishing to teach and explore modern programming language concepts, and to .NET developers interested in how the technology works. Features The Shared Source CLI archive contains the following technologies in source code form: An implementation of the runtime for the Common Language Infrastructure (ECMA-335) that builds and runs on Windows XP, the FreeBSD operating system, and Mac OS X 10.2. Compilers that work with the Shared Source CLI for C# (ECMA-334) and JScript. Development tools for working with the Shared Source CLI such as assembler/disassemblers (ilasm, ildasm), a debugger (cordbg), metadata introspection (metainfo), and other utilities. The Platform Adaptation Layer (PAL) used to port the Shared Source CLI from Windows XP to FreeBSD and Mac OS X. Build environment tools (nmake, build, and others). Documentation for the implementation. Test suites used to verify the implementation. A rich set of sample code and tools for working with the Shared Source CLI. New in this Release A more detailed list of what's new in this release is included in the FAQ (below). Support for Mac OS X 10.2. Additional code clean-up and bug fixes. Debugger improvements. Class reference documentation (separate archive) and additional samples. Build system improvements and additional test cases and tool improvements. What can I do with the Shared Source CLI? There is a wealth of programming language technology in the Shared Source CLI. It is likely to be of interest to a wide audience, including: Developers interested in the internal workings of the .NET Framework can explore this implementation of the CLI to see how garbage collection works, JIT compilation and verification is handled, security protocols implemented, and the organization of frameworks and virtual object systems. Teachers and researchers doing work with advanced compiler technology. Research projects into language extensions, JIT optimizations, and modern garbage collection all have a basis in the Shared Source CLI. Modern compiler courses can be based on the C# or JScript languages implemented on the CLI. People developing their own CLI implementations will find the Shared Source CLI an indispensable guide and adjunct to the ECMA standards. Shared Source Common Language Infrastructure 1.0 Release English Download files below Related Resources Article: The Microsoft Shared Source CLI Implementation FAQ and Release Notes for This Download Microsoft Shared Source CLI Newsgroup Home Page for Microsoft Shared Source Initiative System Requirements Supported Operating Systems: Windows XP On Windows you will need: Windows XP or Windows 2000. We recommend Windows XP. Microsoft Visual Studio .NET. Perl 5.6 (available from http://www.perl.org.) Archiving utility of choice—WinZip or other. 256 MB of memory. One gigabyte of free disk space. On FreeBSD you will need: FreeBSD 4.7 (recommended). The developer distribution installed. 512 MB of memory. One gigabyte of free disk space. On Mac OS X you will need: Mac OS X version 10.2. Apple Developer Tools. The BSD subsystem installed. 256 MB memory, 512 MB (recommended). One gigabyte of free disk space. [/code:1] <sigh>....

10-23-2003, 07:08 PM	#7 (permalink)
Phantom Account Terminated Join Date: Sep 2002 Age: 26 Posts: 3,846	This isn't what you guys think it is... Besides I tried to explain that he was miss informed about what this was actually is. but you have to butt in and tell me to be nicer? wasn't even rude, I tried to avoid a pointless converation... but NOO! From what I can tell thats just the "group" "project" "resources" to bring .NET to other OS's as I doubt its anything but that.

10-23-2003, 07:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
Rigmore Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 23	Alright, Fair Enough... Quoting 400 pages of text and ending it with a pseudosarcastic remark such as "<sigh>..." is not being helpful. Taking the time to explain something is. It's obvious from his contributions Phantom is not likely being irritating purposefully, but then again, this type of response is akin to saying "lookit me - I know more than you do, but I'm not gonna share!, whether he intends that or not. Secondly, my point was that although the original question was in the present tense, if conditions allow, future tense could very well be a reality...which would be good for the community as a whole. As for carrying this on, it's called a Discussion Forum...if I wanted to hear "Are too" and "Are not!" commentary, I could go to to the sandbox at my children's school.

10-23-2003, 08:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
psz UO Gamers: Demise Administrator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Swamp Age: 29 Posts: 10,800	Then those people need to learn to deal. Guess what? There are more people in this world MUCH more harsh than Phantom than a lot of people like to admit. Phantom is quite mild compared to, say, Executives, Managers, Personel Directors, and most bosses at jobs. If you can't handle the way me, or Phantom, or Swaileh, or Krazy Zack, or Ryan get frustrated or whatnot, you're not going to deal well with higher ups IRL. That's a fact of life. Back to the topic on hand: The SSCLI has been in the works for YEARS and nothing has come of it. It was first tossed around in 1998. It was then re-examined in 2000. When .Net was released, it was to be the Final Working Standard for it (That was well over a year ago). Yes, it has merit. No it's not likely to be useful in the coming year or so. __________________ psz Demise' Creator (Retired) The RunUO.com Forum Moderator Team Former Official RunUO Scripter (Retired) Websites: My 360 Blog My Gaming Site(Old Link) My Gaming Site(New Link)

10-23-2003, 10:16 PM	#15 (permalink)
Phantom Account Terminated Join Date: Sep 2002 Age: 26 Posts: 3,846	After i posted the quote all i hear is "BLAH BLAH BLAH" :twisted:

10-24-2003, 08:39 AM	#17 (permalink)
psz UO Gamers: Demise Administrator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Swamp Age: 29 Posts: 10,800	Let's say you build models of Formula 1 cars as a hobby. Would you A: Read the instructions, and use the correct paint and cement, and have a good idea of the car you're trying to build, or would you B: Discard the instructions, and use masking tape, and NEVER see the car prior? Which do you think would make for a better result? Let's say you want a hobby of painting the field outside your house... Do you A: Surround your self with pictures of the place you want to paint, get the correct brushes, canvas and oil/water/acrylic paints, or do you B: Move across country so you can't SEE the field, get some house paint, some rollers, and start painting on writing paper? Again, which do YOU think will make for a better result? Even though something is a hobby does NOT mean you should not try to do it right. If doing it right means asking a professional (Or at least a semi-pro), you'd better expect them to point out where you've missed the basics at. A semi-pro painter will laugh at you if not slam the door in your face if you asked advice while holding house paints and rollers in your hand. __________________ psz Demise' Creator (Retired) The RunUO.com Forum Moderator Team Former Official RunUO Scripter (Retired) Websites: My 360 Blog My Gaming Site(Old Link) My Gaming Site(New Link)

10-24-2003, 11:34 AM	#18 (permalink)
Philantrop RunUO addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 427	I agree with you when it comes to trying to be professional in what you do. I disagree, though, and that was what I originally meant, with your remark about RL superiors compared to Phantom and company. I don't like the way Phantom sometimes responds to others. And I will tell him so. This is completely independent, though, from how I behave in my job. (Though I'm glad to be in a position where I may speak my mind freely.) Just the fact that someone can't stand the way some people here treat others, without respect especially, doesn't mean it will be the same in real life. On the contrary, if I spoke my mind here freely about people taking out their frustrations on others I would probably get banned fairly soon - free speech ends early sometimes. :-)

10-24-2003, 12:26 PM	#20 (permalink)
Phantom Account Terminated Join Date: Sep 2002 Age: 26 Posts: 3,846	Learned long ago, Just to ignore the fools. dumbasses, and people who are not my friends. You can place yourself in any one of those three groups of people ( talking to the person who seems dislike how I answerd the question ). Everyone else were cool, until you do the same at least

10-24-2003, 02:44 PM	#21 (permalink)
psz UO Gamers: Demise Administrator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Swamp Age: 29 Posts: 10,800	My point was that you WILL have to deal with people with that sort of attitude IRL, so get used to it HERE AND NOW where it's much easier. __________________ psz Demise' Creator (Retired) The RunUO.com Forum Moderator Team Former Official RunUO Scripter (Retired) Websites: My 360 Blog My Gaming Site(Old Link) My Gaming Site(New Link)

10-24-2003, 08:29 PM	#22 (permalink)
Kobold Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 17	AMD ownz you!

10-24-2003, 08:32 PM	#23 (permalink)
psz UO Gamers: Demise Administrator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Swamp Age: 29 Posts: 10,800	Ok... And what, praytell, does that have to do with this thread at all? __________________ psz Demise' Creator (Retired) The RunUO.com Forum Moderator Team Former Official RunUO Scripter (Retired) Websites: My 360 Blog My Gaming Site(Old Link) My Gaming Site(New Link)

10-25-2003, 01:10 AM	#25 (permalink)
David Moderate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USA Posts: 6,598	Just... don't let this turn into a flame war, on people or processors... shakes his head and turns away __________________ David Forum Moderator The RunUO.com Forum Moderator Team Forum Rules and Guidelines RunUO Forum Search Engine Download RunUO 2.0 RC2