RunUO monster AI ... it is TOO good...

[RFaul]

The AI is very good...

Ok monsters can't be trapped so easily and they aren't plagued by pathing bugs.

But the Mage AI is insane... It is too much efficient...

In the OSI shards Mage Creatures aren't as deadly as those in a Run UO Shard.

The Mage AI is dispelling, healing and teleporting too much. Something I've never seen in an OSI Shard. That AI makes some places impossible to go (like mage tower), and then players would preffer easier areas without casting monsters.

Casting monsters are healing, teleporting and dispelling too much. And also comboing high damage spells. It seems all casters are capable of that and I don't remember seen in OSI Shards Titans or Ophidians Shamans teleporting, healing themselves too full every single time they get low on health, let alone dread spiders being able to easily handle solo 2 demons (5 slot creatures) simultaneously due to the insane dispel rate and effectiveness (I've never seen them do that before).

Anyone else is noticing this?

[XxSP1DERxX]

Yeah i noticed it too, but i thought my players are pussies.

I did however tone down the spells by 50%, so high level spells arent used as much. And the damage was toned down a 10pts or so. Healing is overused because the creatures think method fires alot, so there is a high chance that they will heal.

I agree with the dispelling and the teleporting. Those are hard to handle. However, I beefed up their casting to exclude low-level spells for more powerful casters. It annoys me to no end when Lich Lords or Demons cast Fire Arrow :?

What I haven't been able to do is make them cast more often. If you watch a mage critter's mana, they hardly tap into it. I'd like to see 'em unload it.

[silverwolfe]

hmmm my player base has never complained, sure they noted that the AI was much imporved over OSI but they have no problem soloing dragons or LL and if a warrior can solo a LL or a Dragon then I think they are fine.

Of course I have an AI on my shard that is far meaner than the Mage AI so my players think the mages are candy. If you want a real chalange come check out UOT's Smart AI on Silver Mist. The monsters use special attacks, change weapons, use potions, use bandages, and call to arms. you think a lowly mage is tough try 8 archers using special aos attacks and one with a random weapon who i you run will switch back to the bow. Not recomended for the faint of heart.

[lordomega]

Originally Posted by silverwolfe

Of course I have an AI on my shard that is far meaner than the Mage AI so my players think the mages are candy. The monsters use special attacks, change weapons, use potions, use bandages, and call to arms.

Very cool.

[David]

a call to arms huh? That is something I'd like my critters to do. Interested in sharing?

[psz]

Is this UO or Dungeon Keeper? :shock:

[silverwolfe]

David if it were mine I would be glad to but it is UOT's AI and I am uncertain if he is satisfied enough with it to release it. You might contact him and see if hes willing to send you a copy.

As I said If it were mine to share I would gladly give it to you, but alas it is not and therefore I shall respect his wishes not to give it out but to wait until he is satisfied with it and allow him to post it. He calls it SmartAI, but as I said I am uncertain if he is happy enough with it to share yet. I personaly would describe it as a thing of beauty.

You are welcome to see it in action on Silver Mist, Currently Three different Monster types use that AI.

[Nynaeve]

Originally Posted by RFaul

Ok monsters can't be trapped so easily and they aren't plagued by pathing bugs.

IMHO Barracoon is as plagued by pathing bugs as anything, the strategy there is ALWAYS the same, lure him to the left of the bridge, teleport on top of the ledge and fire at will, while he's too stupid to look for the way up to the right.
Welcome to the SOP supermarket. *grin*

[RFaul]

Yesterday I rolled on the floor laughing when I added an Evil Healer and set his Debug Property True...

It was very funny when one player hit him and then he started with the chain casts and debug messages....

This promptly shows the Mage AI needs some tunning, really the think method fires a lot, but it's not only that, some creatures are using spells I've never seen them using in OSI Shards... It is impossible to make an OSI-like shard using that AI... Now I know why certain areas in my shard are deserted while others are crowded due to to players avoiding casting monsters.

On the other hand changing that AI for something more OSI like could make tamers a little bit unhappy with their caster pets. I think tamers on my shard are getting used to the overpower of their casting pets.

[RFaul]

Well, I would like to see more feedback on this issue... So far I've found folks here with similar impressions. And I think there may be really good suggestions on how to fix this AI.

Anyways, the current MageAI could seem poor for shards with a higher skill cap...

But for those that would like a bit more ressemblance to an OSI Shard may find some hard time trying to balance this.

I am worried because this may restrict the PVM aspect of the game to only a few sucessful templates.

Having an active OSI Account I found that using RunUO AI the monsters are:

1. Teleporting too much... Actually, I can't remember if I've ever seen a monster teleporting in the Atlantic Shard... specially Ophidians since I use to hunt there a lot.

2. Healing too much... This is rather annoying, unless you can keep it interrupted, a mage monster will take a lot of time to die... This also increases the player's mana usage to finish it... When I play in Atlantic Shard spellcasting of healing spells is rather an uncommon action.

3. Addicted to dispel... It should be very uncommon monsters without auto-dispell dispelling summoned creatures...

4. Using spells too much aggressively... chain casts of high damaging spells while in OSI more often than not a Mage Monster would aggro on you and walk all the screen towards you without a casting a single spell. Using the standard RunUO MageAI most of the time a Monster would start casting Kal Vas Flam.

[ZirrArkail]

Well, here's my feedback.

I suppose if you want an exact OSI replica, I understand what you're saying.

But if you want a better all around gaming experience, the tougher AI the better. Don't you want to be BETTER than OSI not just a clone? OSI AI sucks, period.

Better AI means more life like npc's and isn't that what you would want?

I love the fact that I can attack an evil healer with my mage char and it almost feels like pvp combat. This (in my opinion) is what makes the game fun.

What fun is it when there is no real challenge to killing anything in the game?

I say, if anything make the AI better and better. How about we develop an AI that allows monsters to wait for you outside of guard zones? They can even hide around moongates in wait for an easy kill. If an imp sees a 7x GM character, they instantly recall away. If it's a low level character, they move in for the kill. Etc etc. Better AI means a more challenging game and more enjoyment. All of this is my personal opinion only of course....

[Styla]

I have to agree with the better AI means a better play. When I was GMing D&D games, NONE of my critters were wimps. My mages attacked and ran when out of mana or regs. They tailored spells to what they had left to cast with, squeezing out all they could from an attack sequence. My low intelligence fighters (skeletons, etc) stayed to the death, but higher int critters knew when to run.

What I would like to see is a thief/assassin AI that hides in wait, then pops out for a back attack (x2 or x3 damage), runs in a random direction, hides and uses stealth steps to move from the place he was hiding. Then he starts again.

Make the game like you would play so the wimps leave and the real players stay.

[RFaul]

Yes, I also like challenge...

But I think there's enough challenge in OSI Shards even with a flawed AI. Like I've said above even the current RunUO AI may even prove weak to shards with skill and stat caps higher than the standard caps.

On the other hand, with the standard RunUO Mage AI, I find it's rather difficult to reach the same degree of balance between different templates in PVM.

Not that different templates should face the same difficulty against all monsters, it isn't like that even in an OSI Shard. There are some templates that inherently face less challenge in PVM. Still I think the AI should enable a similar experience to a broader range of templates that aren't exactly PVM centered, like OSI AI does.

There's also the fact that the current MageAI actually disencourages the exploration of several standard areas if those follow the same spawn rules as an OSI shard. Also characters need higher training (a closed template in many cases) before they can start hunting in several areas, and that's another annoying aspect of it.

[mebane2]

I would say improve the other AI's vs nurf a good working one. Not the other others have anything wrong, but its better to improve something then to dumb it down. It may shift players back a bit overall for a bit, but before long they will build back up. Right now I think the problem is the gap in difficulty between the mages and the next easiest AI. Anytime there is a uneven (usually logarythmicaly uneven) gap in the the dificulty scale, thats when you see most people stop at the easyier side.

But ya, the Mage AIs are definatly a lot better then OSI's. Personaly I love dumping 1 or 2 on my guinipigs on my test server and watch them try and fight it, then run like the wind rofl