This is not a flame of RunUO which I admire. - RunUO

thema · 01-24-2003, 06:36 AM

Please don't read this as a flame, because it is merely my observations.

1st off I have RunUO and for some reason I think I'm going to run with it. I expect that it is because of the rapid development for it, and it's the only one that remained running when I left and came back after a day. So whatever comes next, don't suppose I'm anti RunUO. This is despite not being a great fan of MS powered products (Linux 4 eva).

The problems I've encountered are these.

No real support for RunUO worldfiles. It is hard enough to build a world, but when every UO server clone introduces it's own unique method of keeping track of shared items. The least you could do is ensure that the freezing of static items to the statics files was as routine as their initial creation is. Yes yes, I have done all the things like build the statics in UOXC and then import the items to RunUO finally export them to freeze them with WorldForge5 (Puff! puff!), and Lo!.........It didn't work!

I see the imported items. But when I export them to freeze. Nothing arrives. Why can't it simply be another script like [Freeze statics ?

No common ground in scripting new definitions. We should have a list of defined classes to steer clear of. Or else an override ability. Too often I have downloaded a script (all kudos & power to you scripters out there BTW) to find that it redefines some class in RunUO and breaks the compiler. I mean Duh! Surely the compiler can be made to see that it's ok to redefine. After all it's just a matter of scrapping the previous definition and starting over. If the script is preparsed, then the compiler can ensure that user definitions get priority, or Vice Versa if you prefer.

What is it with you lot and C#?
I know, it's a great language. But that's what it is. A language. We shouldn't all have to learn a whole language to script RunUO. If we could do that we'd be writing RunUO and not you. Get off your unicorns, and add script support so we non coders have a chance willya. Besides which I have already learned a number of programming languages over the years. Pascal, COBOL, FORTH, BASIC, VisBas, LISP, C, C+, C++ the lisp..er, I mean list is seemingly endless. I have absolutely no desire to learn another language just to script RunUO, and add another one to the endless list of redundant stuff cluttering my tiny brane. I do however have a great desire to script RunUO so I can make my world a better place (for me and mine anyway :¬P )

Maybe I'm dumb (Yeah I think soo) but it seems to me that you can have two levels of scripting in RunUO. A simple script parser for the dummies, and the C# compiler for the heX-Spurts. That way thickos like me can't break the system by trying to add a new Gump. But we can still call on some supergeek to add Champion Spawns for us.

Okay that's it for now. Thanks for listening....

um..hello!

where did everyone go?

Darn. It was such a good rant too.

Oh well
See yas

Thema

Shurugwi · 01-24-2003, 06:47 AM

I won't see your post as a flame, I'll categorise it under tantrum instead.

Quote:

Maybe I'm dumb (Yeah I think soo) but it seems to me that you can have two levels of scripting in RunUO. A simple script parser for the dummies, and the C# compiler for the heX-Spurts. That way thickos like me can't break the system by trying to add a new Gump. But we can still call on some supergeek to add Champion Spawns for us.

If you really realy want scripting of some sort in RunUO then script it. Make your own script parser for RunUO. Thats the beaty about RunUO and its architecture. You can do almost anything you want and if you put some of that expertise you calim to have to good work then be the first to make a second scripting language for RunUO. Total waste of time though imho.

thema · 01-24-2003, 06:58 AM

Tantrum?

Did you actually read the post at all?

First a tantrum is just a random rant. Mine had clear points to make.
Second I think I made it clear that I had no expertise in C#, and have no wish to gain some.
3rd Was there some reason for your post? If so I missed it.

Thema

**Zippy** · 01-24-2003, 07:14 AM

Okay, okay... one thing at a time.

First off, yeah it sucks that every emulator has their own best world, but the fact is every emu is different, in the perfect world your desk and my desk would look exactly the same, everything neatly stacked so you could find stuff on my desk if you needed. But this is the real world, there's empty soda cans and beer caps everywhere, paper with handwriting the chicken himself can't read, cds with no cases, cds with no labels, and under all of this is a mouse, a keyboard, and maybe a few pizza boxes.

Your desk might not be this bad, but, you get my point. So, there are one or two scripts INCLUDED in the runuo distro that allow you to build your world inside runuo, and then export it to a wsc format that the map programs can understand. Try those, you shouldn't need uoxc at all.

Secondsly on the script compiler, we have limited flexability with the script compiler because we didn't write it, its the same compiler #dev and MSVS.net use, the ms compiler. The script compiler in runuo just calls out to CSharpCodeProvider and gets back a compile assembly. Thats why we don't have a better recompile command--there's not language level support for it. I can think of at least one way to allow for custom scripts overriding distro scripts, but its not a great solution. A better solution is for the person who wrote a scrip that conflicts with another script to post info on how to fix it, or for you to fix it yourself. it's usually not too hard, if you dl a script for a new katana, and runuo says "multiple deffinentions for katana" then delete the old katana, its not hard to figure out :-)

Lastly, when I started RunUO last august, I had never even SEEN C# or Java, let alone code in them. I had done several years of C/C++, 1 college level course, 2 highschool courses, and a whole lot of self teaching. I picked it up in no time, if you have programmed in all those languages it shouldn't be hard, the style to runuo's scripts is VERY oo, and very easy to pick up... If you're not sure--make it a class :-)

For either me or Krrios to take the time to design a "lesser" script compiler to compile scripts is a pretty crazy solution if you think about it, we have a 100% functional language and compiler at our disposal, but because it's overly complex (read: customizable, powerful, limitless), we should create an easier, more limited language thats specific to runuo, so you can learn that, then decide you want more power, and end up learning C# anyway? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Plus, if you had me design you a language, don't expect it to be easier to learn than C#... maybe I would go nuts and make it functional, just for laughs.

Don't get me started on functional programming at 6:15 am when I haven't slept for 21 hours....

You don't need to learn all of C# to make scripts for runuo, you need to learn how to 'se;f teach' youself some C#, find something simple you want to do, set out to do it, there's an example of something similar SOMEWHERE in your RunUO/Scripts directory. Ask questions when you get stuck..... If you can't find an example of what you want to do, then you are getting too complex.. start out trying to make an advancement gate or something.

I refuse to believe RunUO is any harder than any other emulator. UOX uses .scp or .dfn files, which look easier than runuo, but if you open up katana.cs it really isn't much more complex, just change the values you want, its not hard. Anyway. I should probably go to sleep.

What a post.

*laughs to self* functional programming.. hahaha

thema · 01-24-2003, 09:44 AM

I have to admit that if the compiler is thrown in, it makes little sense to build a simpler language at this time.

However the solution you provide for conflicts is insufficient. It seems that some class definitions are lost with code that is itself lost in a directory tree of scripts. This is compounded by the fact that your server will tell me the name of the offending redifine script, but not where the original definition is located.

Now get some sleep

Thema

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Dian · 01-24-2003, 10:12 AM

Man, some people are never happy.. download RunUO, play with it for a bit, find somthing that you dont think works right, or good enough, and try to get the Devs to change, add, or modify just to suit your needs..

Windows has a File search that works quite well to find files.. I mean, If you have 2 Katana scripts, One you just added, and the Default RunUO script, (for example) sure, you wont get the defined paths of both scripts on the Compiler when you get the error.. But i mean, How long does it take to locate them ?? Is it really such an inconvinience for you that you must try to request a Core/Compiler modification to the Devs just to save you that extrta minute, maybe 2 if you dot know windows well enough to make the search correctly the first time?

I have a complete custom map, and have been building everything in RunUO 100% for the last month or better.. This includes, Building town buildings, (and whatever else) Exporting them, Freezing them to statics/staidx files.
No, I dont use the WSCExport command that comes with RunUO, as it does an entire World export... But if you did a search, you will find that we have released a very good Import/Export script that allows defined area exporting, and importing to/from a *.wsc file.

As for multiple levels of scripting... Why? I would only see that as good for one thing.. It would allow you to write in a language you already know, and not have to learn a little bit of C#. and if you know C, C+, and even C++.. you would have no trouble learning the extras of C#
If, another level of language was made readable, by the time you finished the massive amounts of scripting lines that any other language would require to preform a basic function, and then a few more for the compatibility for C# to understand, I would bet you could have already learned enough C# to make your function in a few simple lines via C#

just my thoughts.. then again.. what do I know

mrkroket · 01-24-2003, 03:01 PM

It's the first time I saw somebody complaining about how powerful is a scripting language :shock:

And your conclusion doesn't make sense. If you don't want to learn a new language, don't script for uo server emus.

Others emu has it's own script. And those scripts languages are usually different to real programming languages.
What happens? I never scripted on other server emus, because I don't want to learn a new programming method only for a emu.
Yes, I have an endless languages too: asm, basic, pascal, delphi, ada, c, c++, java, ...... and functions of high level languages are very similar:
[code:1]
<function> <parameters> <return>
<start function & variables>
<your code.....>
<end function>
[/code:1]

With RunUO, if you know how to program on a real prog. language, you take less time to learn how to program on it. Others emus should take me about 4x times more to only understand how can I do something.
RunUO takes less time to learn, and it offers more power...

I like runuo mainly by its script. Otherwise, I don't even think to test it. I think RunUO is the only emu that you are not limited by the script, you can do anything you can imagine and more.

Luckily, you has more emus to program: POL has a Pascal-like script, and Sphere... has a script.

Phlegyas · 01-24-2003, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy

But this is the real world, there's empty soda cans and beer caps everywhere, paper with handwriting the chicken himself can't read, cds with no cases, cds with no labels, and under all of this is a mouse, a keyboard, and maybe a few pizza boxes.

As I look around, I realize you've described my desk with much detail

Anyway, I agree...I hadn't even looked at c# or any .net stuff (because of my bias towards linux) until RunUO came along. As I delved into my first script, it was a bit overwhelming, and the documentation seemed lacking, but the best thing that I did was set up intellisense for sharpdevelop...it makes programming so much easier. After a couple of hours of fumbling around to get the thing to compile, I was able to get it working (in-game)...then, as I looked back at the code, I realized that there really weren't very many lines of code to get this accomplished, and it shouldn't be that easy

I think any possible learning curve to get up to speed with c# and RunUO is well worth the effort.

Thanks,
Phlegyas

thema · 01-24-2003, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dian

Man, some people are never happy..

I'm always happy. Where'd you get that from?
But if you look around this forum, you will see that many people echo my sentiment regarding the complexity of RunUO's scripting. How is it useful to try and make me feel bad for telling you I don't like it? I'm just not smart enough to learn to do it your way. I'm not alone. Stop treating me like a cry baby because I don't have your brains, and I'm willing to tell you what you can do to help me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dian

download RunUO, play with it for a bit, find somthing that you dont think works right, or good enough, and try to get the Devs to change, add, or modify just to suit your needs..

I did that already, and I'm playing my head off. But you see. I'm here at the beginning for once. That means a chance to tell you what I need. What I don't need is someone to do my work for me. I just need the tools to do that work made easier. Most scripts are simple linear functions that often work like old BASIC in style. One can easilly just look up a function and apply it. No need to learn anything. No need to bother any Devs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dian

Windows has a File search that works quite well to find files.. I mean, If you have 2 Katana scripts, One you just added, and the Default RunUO script, (for example) sure, you wont get the defined paths of both scripts on the Compiler when you get the error.. But i mean, How long does it take to locate them ?? Is it really such an inconvinience for you that you must try to request a Core/Compiler modification to the Devs just to save you that extrta minute, maybe 2 if you dot know windows well enough to make the search correctly the first time?

I'm using WinXP that I installed just for RunUO. The damned search for text within files thingy is broken. :shock: It doesn't work.

I knew I liked Linux for a reason.
Also you missed what I said again. The definitions are not always within a file of the same name as the function. Sometimes it seems that there are more then one definitions to a file.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dian

I have a complete custom map, and have been building everything in RunUO 100% for the last month or better.. This includes, Building town buildings, (and whatever else) Exporting them, Freezing them to statics/staidx files.
No, I dont use the WSCExport command that comes with RunUO, as it does an entire World export... But if you did a search, you will find that we have released a very good Import/Export script that allows defined area exporting, and importing to/from a *.wsc file.

Yep done that. But for some reaon the items would not freeze into the statics files. I still believe it could, and should be a command from within RunUO. Instead of doing multi imports and exports, why not just freeze an area directly? Even if it meant freezing to a copy of the static files, which could then be reloaded later. Although I bet you lot could work it out between you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dian

As for multiple levels of scripting... Why? I would only see that as good for one thing.. It would allow you to write in a language you already know, and not have to learn a little bit of C#. and if you know C, C+, and even C++.. you would have no trouble learning the extras of C#
If, another level of language was made readable, by the time you finished the massive amounts of scripting lines that any other language would require to preform a basic function, and then a few more for the compatibility for C# to understand, I would bet you could have already learned enough C# to make your function in a few simple lines via C#

just my thoughts.. then again.. what do I know

I would bet you know more then me

However that again is my point. It seems you bright boys fail to understand just how complicated what you're doing is to the ordinary mortal of average intelligence. This does not mean we can't do useful stuff. Just that the best way to help isn't to tell us to go away and learn the language, like we're being lazy or something. It's to give us tools that can make it easier for us. Still if you can't do that because of limitations within C# then that's ok. I'll live. I may even learn C# who knows. I would bet if I sat down and wrote a script at the same time as any of you. Yours would be finished a year earlier then mine even if I did learn the language. That's just a fact of life.

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Shurugwi · 01-24-2003, 04:20 PM

RunUO is still in beta and there are very few tutorials written with regards to writing C# scripts for the EMU. DustBuster has posted some exelent tutorials in the 'Script Support' section that would give anyone a good place to start.

Zippy also started a section at http://www.runuo.com/tutorial/ that has great promise.

As with anything new there is an initial stage where you need to get familiar with both the emu and the language. With your experience it should not be difficult to tinker a basic script after you read those few tutorials.

I agree that coding in C# could seem overwhelming at the start but once you understand the RunUO structure and have a basic knowledge of C# you will realise how limiting scripting languages in other EMUs have been and what a liberating experience working with the RunUO and C# combo is.

If I had to choose a slightly steaper learning curve for C# vs a for more limiting scripting language then give me C# any day.

As far as searching text in files, I'm an old old DOS man. migrated from Norton Commander to Windows Commander, can't live without it

http://www.ghizzler.com ALT+F7

mono should be ready soon so we should be able to run RunUO on linux.
http://www.runuo.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=4043

Spooky · 01-24-2003, 08:02 PM

If you dont like then dont use it simple.

thema · 01-24-2003, 10:18 PM

That last reply was really annoying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooky

If you dont like then dont use it simple.

What was the purpose of that?
What's even more annoying is that it was from an old timer that should know better.
I had made the mistake of thinking this was a discussion forum. Perhaps it is, and Spooky is just a bad example.
Honestly I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but even I can do better then that. In fact if that post had been made in any of our forums, it would have invited a ban.

Don't tell me what to do Spooky. I can make my own mind up whether or not to use something. Or were you again trying to put me off discussing with the Dev team what it is I would like to see, and what it is I find difficult to cope with.

I emphasise i like RunUO. It is great stuff, and as a developer of minor creations, no way in this league. I know what it is like when all you ever get is either useless praise, or zero feedback.

I would suggest if you cant provide me with better comments that you should keep your opinions to yourself.

I apologise in advance to those that have answered my opinions with worthwhile, or at least intelligent replies, and thank anyone that has had any extra thoughts as a result of what I have said. Now I really will close this thread from my side as I see no further use in carrying it on.

Thema.

01-24-2003, 10:57 PM

I think C# is harder to learn than sphere script or pol scipt, but easier to use.

For example, in sphere, most complex scripts require tricks to avoid the language's limits... But C# provides enough power so you dont need to write a timer item to run a delayed effect, just use a timer class...

abaddon_knight · 01-24-2003, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy

Don't get me started on functional programming at 6:15 am when I haven't slept for 21 hours....

*laughs to self* functional programming.. hahaha

Since Zippy wouldn't get into it, neither will I! LOL too funny.....

Zippy try saying it five times real fast.

FUNCTIONAL PROGRAMMING

Phantom · 01-25-2003, 12:25 AM

Quote:

What's even more annoying is that it was from an old timer that should know better.

What does his title have to do with anything? Unless it says RunUO Core Scripters nobody is better then anyone here. I am just as old as the "Old Timers" infact alot of people don't post 10 post a day.

brodock · 01-25-2003, 12:55 AM

PLEASE READ THIS IT'S IMPORTANT:

I come first from sphere (one year ago i started developing uocentral)...
yes it's sphere easy and fast...
4 mounths ago...
Shit why the @#$(@# devs couldn't repair the bugs without creating another one (i was testing 0.99 bugs releases)

ok then i stoped my shard becouse of i was using 99 (i wanted to run 3d) but it crashes every 30 minutes... (impossible to run)
then i changed to uox (for 2 days, and it becames like Pol... milhion times to load)
then i started working with nox (become in nox since last november)
it was a greate emualtor ate the begining...
very fast
low system resources
fast loading/saving...
and very customizable (but it's scripting language, SMALL is too dificult for me, and it doesn't have a good comunity like here and sphere that helps all of noob scripters like me) then it becames impossible to make a simple scripted gate...

(i decided to use nox because runuo uses .net plataform that wasn't supported by linux, but now that i read about linux support in the future i changed my shard to runuo)

now about scripting languages...
if you want a fucking easy script language go to sphere... (and live with theyre bugs)

in theses 2 mounths that i worked with nox i learned how good is to have a compiled script...

c# is easy to learn (if you know any fucking language you can learn easy c#, if you don't know any other languages like delphi (this is the best in my opinion) c++ javascript vb it is a bit complicated but not impossible...

you just have to search in the forums to get parts of scripts to make your own script (at noob state like i'm now)

after that you became understanding how the thinngs is maked here and can develop your scripts without external help and can help other noobs (like you was) and submit your scripts to continue helping the comunity...

so PLEASE DON'T CREATE ANYOTHER FUCKING SCRIPTING LANGUAGE BECASE IT JUST CREATE BUGS... USING c# WITH COMPILING SUPPORT IS THE BEST AWAY... IT'S FAST AND IT'S EASY TO SEARCH FOR BUGS...
THEN IT IS STABLE!

i have suficient experiences that can grant you that having a compiled script is the best away...

PS: sorry for my english...

**krrios** · 01-25-2003, 01:29 AM

We do not have any current plans to modify the core script compilers to support another non-.NET language. I've been mulling over possible VB.NET support, but that's probably not what you're looking for.

Also, let's not flame everyone who has some constructive criticism.

Xacker · 01-25-2003, 07:23 AM

I the bigest lamer in the world in programin atlest in this comunitey I dont know eney language

I work araun sphere 1 month and then I understand that they haw so mach bugs as sponge

iposible mision

And I thing that wif sucha progers as hawe runuo it will by the best.

And if u kan build yor own sc then modeifey them as I do at start and u will teach c#

the mine problem for mey is } { I kan gadet haw tu use tehm

bat tumorow I will get .net and I hope that it will help muy
wif sintax

chad · 01-25-2003, 03:22 PM

I run windows xp. My search function finds words or phrases within files. I searched wyrm and found 6 files in the runuo directory containing that word. Would some other search program find more?

thema · 01-25-2003, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chad

I run windows xp. My search function finds words or phrases within files. I searched wyrm and found 6 files in the runuo directory containing that word. Would some other search program find more?

Hehe I must just be unlucky I guess. My Xp's search is defunct. I had to use another tool in the end.

Thema

01-29-2003, 02:06 AM

Quote:

I'm using WinXP that I installed just for RunUO. The damned search for text within files thingy is broken. It doesn't work.

yes, its broken, I never knew whether it got fixed in SP1.
I use www.funduc.com search and replace, which is way more powerful than any other search engine; even allows you to do SR using regular expressions recursively

01-30-2003, 08:22 PM

@thema

I agree with you on the 'don't want to learn another language' argument....
I have a problem where when I learn new stuff it pushes the old stuff out of my brain... Like when I learned to home brew beer and then forgot how to drive...

@everyone else

I MIGHT get back into RunUO now that there are some tutorials on the scripting language. Don't get me wrong it's a GREAT EMU but the C# language (and the fact that I'm a hardware guy so learning code hurts my head and makes me sad in my pants) descouraged me from the start...

NATE · 01-30-2003, 11:16 PM

damn right! rrrrrrrr, and i`ll tell you another thing.....ehhh, um,
chewbaka is my mum.

**David** · 01-31-2003, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krrios

I've been mulling over possible VB.NET support,

My vote is Yes, for whatever that counts...

01-24-2003, 06:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
thema Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 146	This is not a flame of RunUO which I admire. Please don't read this as a flame, because it is merely my observations. 1st off I have RunUO and for some reason I think I'm going to run with it. I expect that it is because of the rapid development for it, and it's the only one that remained running when I left and came back after a day. So whatever comes next, don't suppose I'm anti RunUO. This is despite not being a great fan of MS powered products (Linux 4 eva). The problems I've encountered are these. No real support for RunUO worldfiles. It is hard enough to build a world, but when every UO server clone introduces it's own unique method of keeping track of shared items. The least you could do is ensure that the freezing of static items to the statics files was as routine as their initial creation is. Yes yes, I have done all the things like build the statics in UOXC and then import the items to RunUO finally export them to freeze them with WorldForge5 (Puff! puff!), and Lo!.........It didn't work! I see the imported items. But when I export them to freeze. Nothing arrives. Why can't it simply be another script like [Freeze statics ? No common ground in scripting new definitions. We should have a list of defined classes to steer clear of. Or else an override ability. Too often I have downloaded a script (all kudos & power to you scripters out there BTW) to find that it redefines some class in RunUO and breaks the compiler. I mean Duh! Surely the compiler can be made to see that it's ok to redefine. After all it's just a matter of scrapping the previous definition and starting over. If the script is preparsed, then the compiler can ensure that user definitions get priority, or Vice Versa if you prefer. What is it with you lot and C#? I know, it's a great language. But that's what it is. A language. We shouldn't all have to learn a whole language to script RunUO. If we could do that we'd be writing RunUO and not you. Get off your unicorns, and add script support so we non coders have a chance willya. Besides which I have already learned a number of programming languages over the years. Pascal, COBOL, FORTH, BASIC, VisBas, LISP, C, C+, C++ the lisp..er, I mean list is seemingly endless. I have absolutely no desire to learn another language just to script RunUO, and add another one to the endless list of redundant stuff cluttering my tiny brane. I do however have a great desire to script RunUO so I can make my world a better place (for me and mine anyway :¬P ) Maybe I'm dumb (Yeah I think soo) but it seems to me that you can have two levels of scripting in RunUO. A simple script parser for the dummies, and the C# compiler for the heX-Spurts. That way thickos like me can't break the system by trying to add a new Gump. But we can still call on some supergeek to add Champion Spawns for us. Okay that's it for now. Thanks for listening.... um..hello! where did everyone go? Darn. It was such a good rant too. Oh well See yas Thema

01-24-2003, 06:58 AM	#3 (permalink)
thema Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 146	Er... Tantrum? Did you actually read the post at all? First a tantrum is just a random rant. Mine had clear points to make. Second I think I made it clear that I had no expertise in C#, and have no wish to gain some. 3rd Was there some reason for your post? If so I missed it. Thema

01-24-2003, 07:14 AM	#4 (permalink)
Zippy Administrator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Baltimore, MD Age: 25 Posts: 4,870	Okay, okay... one thing at a time. First off, yeah it sucks that every emulator has their own best world, but the fact is every emu is different, in the perfect world your desk and my desk would look exactly the same, everything neatly stacked so you could find stuff on my desk if you needed. But this is the real world, there's empty soda cans and beer caps everywhere, paper with handwriting the chicken himself can't read, cds with no cases, cds with no labels, and under all of this is a mouse, a keyboard, and maybe a few pizza boxes. Your desk might not be this bad, but, you get my point. So, there are one or two scripts INCLUDED in the runuo distro that allow you to build your world inside runuo, and then export it to a wsc format that the map programs can understand. Try those, you shouldn't need uoxc at all. Secondsly on the script compiler, we have limited flexability with the script compiler because we didn't write it, its the same compiler #dev and MSVS.net use, the ms compiler. The script compiler in runuo just calls out to CSharpCodeProvider and gets back a compile assembly. Thats why we don't have a better recompile command--there's not language level support for it. I can think of at least one way to allow for custom scripts overriding distro scripts, but its not a great solution. A better solution is for the person who wrote a scrip that conflicts with another script to post info on how to fix it, or for you to fix it yourself. it's usually not too hard, if you dl a script for a new katana, and runuo says "multiple deffinentions for katana" then delete the old katana, its not hard to figure out :-) Lastly, when I started RunUO last august, I had never even SEEN C# or Java, let alone code in them. I had done several years of C/C++, 1 college level course, 2 highschool courses, and a whole lot of self teaching. I picked it up in no time, if you have programmed in all those languages it shouldn't be hard, the style to runuo's scripts is VERY oo, and very easy to pick up... If you're not sure--make it a class :-) For either me or Krrios to take the time to design a "lesser" script compiler to compile scripts is a pretty crazy solution if you think about it, we have a 100% functional language and compiler at our disposal, but because it's overly complex (read: customizable, powerful, limitless), we should create an easier, more limited language thats specific to runuo, so you can learn that, then decide you want more power, and end up learning C# anyway? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Plus, if you had me design you a language, don't expect it to be easier to learn than C#... maybe I would go nuts and make it functional, just for laughs. Don't get me started on functional programming at 6:15 am when I haven't slept for 21 hours.... You don't need to learn all of C# to make scripts for runuo, you need to learn how to 'se;f teach' youself some C#, find something simple you want to do, set out to do it, there's an example of something similar SOMEWHERE in your RunUO/Scripts directory. Ask questions when you get stuck..... If you can't find an example of what you want to do, then you are getting too complex.. start out trying to make an advancement gate or something. I refuse to believe RunUO is any harder than any other emulator. UOX uses .scp or .dfn files, which look easier than runuo, but if you open up katana.cs it really isn't much more complex, just change the values you want, its not hard. Anyway. I should probably go to sleep. What a post. laughs to self functional programming.. hahaha __________________ Zippy, Razor Creator and RunUO Core Developer The RunUO Software Team "Intuition, like a flash of lightning, lasts only for a second. It generally comes when one is tormented by a difficult decipherment and when one reviews in his mind the fruitless experiments already tried. Suddenly the light breaks through and one finds after a few minutes what previous days of labor were unable to reveal." ~The Cryptonomicon

01-24-2003, 09:44 AM	#5 (permalink)
thema Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 146	I thought that would e it. I have to admit that if the compiler is thrown in, it makes little sense to build a simpler language at this time. However the solution you provide for conflicts is insufficient. It seems that some class definitions are lost with code that is itself lost in a directory tree of scripts. This is compounded by the fact that your server will tell me the name of the offending redifine script, but not where the original definition is located. Now get some sleep Thema ______________ Member of the society for the preservation of signature Virii. Hi! I'm a signature virus. Copy me into your signature to help me spread. Hi! I'm a signature virus. Copy me into your signature to help me spread. Hi! I'm a signature virus. Copy me into your signature to help me spread.

01-24-2003, 08:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
Spooky Forum Expert Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,267	Hmm If you dont like then dont use it simple.

01-24-2003, 10:12 AM	#6 (permalink)
Dian Forum Expert Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oregon State Age: 34 Posts: 471	Man, some people are never happy.. download RunUO, play with it for a bit, find somthing that you dont think works right, or good enough, and try to get the Devs to change, add, or modify just to suit your needs.. Windows has a File search that works quite well to find files.. I mean, If you have 2 Katana scripts, One you just added, and the Default RunUO script, (for example) sure, you wont get the defined paths of both scripts on the Compiler when you get the error.. But i mean, How long does it take to locate them ?? Is it really such an inconvinience for you that you must try to request a Core/Compiler modification to the Devs just to save you that extrta minute, maybe 2 if you dot know windows well enough to make the search correctly the first time? I have a complete custom map, and have been building everything in RunUO 100% for the last month or better.. This includes, Building town buildings, (and whatever else) Exporting them, Freezing them to statics/staidx files. No, I dont use the WSCExport command that comes with RunUO, as it does an entire World export... But if you did a search, you will find that we have released a very good Import/Export script that allows defined area exporting, and importing to/from a *.wsc file. As for multiple levels of scripting... Why? I would only see that as good for one thing.. It would allow you to write in a language you already know, and not have to learn a little bit of C#. and if you know C, C+, and even C++.. you would have no trouble learning the extras of C# If, another level of language was made readable, by the time you finished the massive amounts of scripting lines that any other language would require to preform a basic function, and then a few more for the compatibility for C# to understand, I would bet you could have already learned enough C# to make your function in a few simple lines via C# just my thoughts.. then again.. what do I know

01-24-2003, 03:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
mrkroket Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 140	It's the first time I saw somebody complaining about how powerful is a scripting language :shock: And your conclusion doesn't make sense. If you don't want to learn a new language, don't script for uo server emus. Others emu has it's own script. And those scripts languages are usually different to real programming languages. What happens? I never scripted on other server emus, because I don't want to learn a new programming method only for a emu. Yes, I have an endless languages too: asm, basic, pascal, delphi, ada, c, c++, java, ...... and functions of high level languages are very similar: [code:1] <function> <parameters> <return> <start function & variables> <your code.....> <end function> [/code:1] With RunUO, if you know how to program on a real prog. language, you take less time to learn how to program on it. Others emus should take me about 4x times more to only understand how can I do something. RunUO takes less time to learn, and it offers more power... I like runuo mainly by its script. Otherwise, I don't even think to test it. I think RunUO is the only emu that you are not limited by the script, you can do anything you can imagine and more. Luckily, you has more emus to program: POL has a Pascal-like script, and Sphere... has a script.

01-24-2003, 04:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
Shurugwi Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 80	RunUO is still in beta and there are very few tutorials written with regards to writing C# scripts for the EMU. DustBuster has posted some exelent tutorials in the 'Script Support' section that would give anyone a good place to start. Zippy also started a section at http://www.runuo.com/tutorial/ that has great promise. As with anything new there is an initial stage where you need to get familiar with both the emu and the language. With your experience it should not be difficult to tinker a basic script after you read those few tutorials. I agree that coding in C# could seem overwhelming at the start but once you understand the RunUO structure and have a basic knowledge of C# you will realise how limiting scripting languages in other EMUs have been and what a liberating experience working with the RunUO and C# combo is. If I had to choose a slightly steaper learning curve for C# vs a for more limiting scripting language then give me C# any day. As far as searching text in files, I'm an old old DOS man. migrated from Norton Commander to Windows Commander, can't live without it http://www.ghizzler.com ALT+F7 mono should be ready soon so we should be able to run RunUO on linux. http://www.runuo.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=4043

01-24-2003, 10:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
Lost User Guest Posts: n/a	I think C# is harder to learn than sphere script or pol scipt, but easier to use. For example, in sphere, most complex scripts require tricks to avoid the language's limits... But C# provides enough power so you dont need to write a timer item to run a delayed effect, just use a timer class...

01-25-2003, 12:55 AM	#16 (permalink)
brodock Forum Expert Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 564	PLEASE READ THIS IT'S IMPORTANT: I come first from sphere (one year ago i started developing uocentral)... yes it's sphere easy and fast... 4 mounths ago... Shit why the @#$(@# devs couldn't repair the bugs without creating another one (i was testing 0.99 bugs releases) ok then i stoped my shard becouse of i was using 99 (i wanted to run 3d) but it crashes every 30 minutes... (impossible to run) then i changed to uox (for 2 days, and it becames like Pol... milhion times to load) then i started working with nox (become in nox since last november) it was a greate emualtor ate the begining... very fast low system resources fast loading/saving... and very customizable (but it's scripting language, SMALL is too dificult for me, and it doesn't have a good comunity like here and sphere that helps all of noob scripters like me) then it becames impossible to make a simple scripted gate... (i decided to use nox because runuo uses .net plataform that wasn't supported by linux, but now that i read about linux support in the future i changed my shard to runuo) now about scripting languages... if you want a fucking easy script language go to sphere... (and live with theyre bugs) in theses 2 mounths that i worked with nox i learned how good is to have a compiled script... c# is easy to learn (if you know any fucking language you can learn easy c#, if you don't know any other languages like delphi (this is the best in my opinion) c++ javascript vb it is a bit complicated but not impossible... you just have to search in the forums to get parts of scripts to make your own script (at noob state like i'm now) after that you became understanding how the thinngs is maked here and can develop your scripts without external help and can help other noobs (like you was) and submit your scripts to continue helping the comunity... so PLEASE DON'T CREATE ANYOTHER FUCKING SCRIPTING LANGUAGE BECASE IT JUST CREATE BUGS... USING c# WITH COMPILING SUPPORT IS THE BEST AWAY... IT'S FAST AND IT'S EASY TO SEARCH FOR BUGS... THEN IT IS STABLE! i have suficient experiences that can grant you that having a compiled script is the best away... PS: sorry for my english... __________________ UO Central: O Mistério do Oculto (Free Shard Brasileiro)

01-25-2003, 01:29 AM	#17 (permalink)
krrios Forum Administrator Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 2,850	We do not have any current plans to modify the core script compilers to support another non-.NET language. I've been mulling over possible VB.NET support, but that's probably not what you're looking for. Also, let's not flame everyone who has some constructive criticism.

01-25-2003, 07:23 AM	#18 (permalink)
Xacker Forum Novice Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Latvia Age: 24 Posts: 116	I the bigest lamer in the world in programin atlest in this comunitey I dont know eney language I work araun sphere 1 month and then I understand that they haw so mach bugs as sponge iposible mision And I thing that wif sucha progers as hawe runuo it will by the best. And if u kan build yor own sc then modeifey them as I do at start and u will teach c# the mine problem for mey is } { I kan gadet haw tu use tehm bat tumorow I will get .net and I hope that it will help muy wif sintax

01-25-2003, 03:22 PM	#19 (permalink)
chad Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 159	I run windows xp. My search function finds words or phrases within files. I searched wyrm and found 6 files in the runuo directory containing that word. Would some other search program find more?

01-30-2003, 08:22 PM	#22 (permalink)
Krazy_zack Guest Posts: n/a	@thema I agree with you on the 'don't want to learn another language' argument.... I have a problem where when I learn new stuff it pushes the old stuff out of my brain... Like when I learned to home brew beer and then forgot how to drive... @everyone else I MIGHT get back into RunUO now that there are some tutorials on the scripting language. Don't get me wrong it's a GREAT EMU but the C# language (and the fact that I'm a hardware guy so learning code hurts my head and makes me sad in my pants) descouraged me from the start...

01-30-2003, 11:16 PM	#23 (permalink)
NATE Forum Novice Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Age: 27 Posts: 202	damn right! rrrrrrrr, and i`ll tell you another thing.....ehhh, um, chewbaka is my mum.