Totally ridiculous idea. Tandem shards!

[thema]

I have no idea how hard this would be, but I imagine it's an idea that has been thought over many times already.

Anyway, for what it's worth here it is.

How about a way of hooking up more then one server, so that several servers can take the load of a shard up between them. Is it possible that the servers could swap info back and forth on another channel, telling each other what the players are up to?
Would this consume as much bandwidth as the clients are already using, as it seems to be bandwidth that limits most shards. Although in my case with an Asynchronous connection (512 down-256 up) it would hardly matter, as I would have at least half of my incoming bandwidth unused, and able to accept incoming info without concern. Also even if it did, all it would mean is that the individual servers would accept less clients, but if there were enough of them, one could build a DSL network that could rival OSI in size.

Thema.

[Shurugwi]

There is an existing thread for this topic

http://www.runuo.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=1767

[thema]

That thread is about importing and exporting characters from shard to shard.

I'm talking about linking servers so that a truly Massive roleplay arena could be created. I really do wish people would take the time toi see what I say rather then say what they see.

Thema.
______________

Member of the society for the preservation of signature Virii.

Hi! I'm a signature virus. Copy me into your signature to help me spread.
Hi, Im a signature virus removal tool. Copy me into your signature to help fight the signature virus
Hi! I'm a signature virus. Copy me into your signature to help me spread.
Hi! I'm a signature virus. Copy me into your signature to help me spread.


OMG We've been infiltrated

[Phantom]

95% of the community does not have shards big enough to even think about a network of computers. Also what OSI has for their servers are not the 3.01 GIG Pent IV computers we can get. They are slowly upgraded of course, anyhow the point.

A good program like RunUO on a massive computer, with a good connection can support more users then you can even begin to support.

[Shurugwi]

Originally Posted by thema

I really do wish people would take the time toi see what I say rather then say what they see.

I guess something similar can be said for people that don't attempt a search before starting a new thread.

http://www.runuo.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=2827

Originally Posted by krrios

RunUO's networking has been designed with scalability in mind. RunUO uses Overlapped IO or IO Completion Ports (depending on the OS), which are both very efficient. For me, crash bugs are of the highest priority.

RunUO is multi-threaded. First, timers are threaded. Second, there is a threaded worldsave option. Third, the IO methods above use a thread pool internally.

We don't have any plans for load balancing like OSI.

[thema]

I did do a search as it happens. I must have used the wrong search terms.
ops:

Still at least you hit the right thread this time.

Thema

[thema]

Hehe Actually, now that I read it in more depth, it isn't much related after all.

Anyway.

Originally Posted by Phantom

A good program like RunUO on a massive computer, with a good connection can support more users then you can even begin to support.

The problem here is you're thinking big because i'm talking big.
Most of the people I know want to run their own shard, but don't have a good connection. All they have is iether a V90 modem, or a DSL. If you throw in the fact that they're bumming stuff from Kazaa all day, and playing UO, or Unreal all night. That doesn't leave all that much bandwidth for running a 24/7 shard.

If load balancing could be implemented in a similar way that IRC runs networks of chat daemons. It would enable me to link my 20 member shard to your 100 member shard, to Psycho's 30member shard etc. And we'd all become great together. Plus there would be the benefit of being able to drop one of the servers without killing the whole shard as so often happens when shard Admins get tee'd off with the ungrateful SOBs that roam their realms :twisted:

Thema

[Impetus]

i made a very long post, read it thru, and decided to just say this idea sucks and its not worth the work at all. when we have a WORKING emu (imo none of the emus is complete, runuo in the lead ofcourse) then maybe one would think of this idea. possibly. like splitting up load over facets or something. maps mebbe.

Atm RunUO looks like it could run the biggest servers EVER, so ill just be very happy with that thank you.

still i doubt those bogged down kazaa junkies would be able to host shards with any users at all so why throw them in the server pool.

hmmm now the post got long again... damnit.




oh and netsplits sucks, and last time i checked uo has a bigger integrity need then a text-chat application.

[thema]

I know what you mean. One can get wordy without effort over this stuff.

I only mentioned Kazaa for fun. I hoipe you got my point really. There's absolutey no use whatever having the ability to run 1000 users without a hicuogh if you only have bandwidth for 50 or so. I know RunUO can run up to 100 on DSL, but realistically one would need to save some bandwidth for other things was my point. I'm lucky. I have access to a T3 so for me It's not a problem. But I know many that want to run big shards and for them I can assure yo it would be worth it.

I take your point re: Netsplits. They do suck. I can also see where it wouldn't be worth it for practical reasons, of difficulty, and security, and cheating exploits etc. etc. But you never know. Some VunderKind out there may just try it and make it work.

Thema

[Phantom]

WE Cannot share PLAYERS its not Possible to many factors.

Drop the subject it WILL NOT HAPPEN

[thema]

:shock:

Why are you shouting at me Phantom?
Are you staff here or something?
Am I breaking some rule?

Just so I know. Only I can't see what I did wrong.
Maybe you won't do it, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

I recall you're the one that yelled at me on another thread, something about descriptions not meaning much. I see that you're emphasisng this point. I notice yours is Helpful Hand.

Thema.

The idea is a good one, some people are just burnt out of hearing about it every 2 weeks. It will be a great idea when shards grow and need more resources. But for now, 1 shard works fine =)

[thema]

Nice to see you're not dead anyway.

I wanted to ask you for those ChampionSpawn Scripts if you've a mind.
ICQ28800537

Thema.

[Dalius]

i also like the idea, large shards with a 200 min player base would have fun with it (server wars)

unfortunatly, not many non-OSI shards have that many players. and its pretty useless without it

[chad]

Thema are you meaning that for instance 3 separate servers all share the same map/worldfiles, account files and such? That I might login and be utilizing server A while another player is playing off server B and we're actually both playing the same game and can see each other?

If this is possible, my guess is packet losses and ordinary internet lag would cause some strange ingame issues like one player saying "let's kill that air elemental" and the other player saying "what air elemental?". There would be lag in the data transmission from one server to the other also. Couldn't that result in serious issues if for instance players traded or bought something from each other and one server or the other went down in the middle of the transaction? Even if there was some sort of setup between the servers that constantly checked for consistency, duplications or omissions and such between the separate servers it seems THAT itself would eat up the bandwidth.

Maybe, hmm. Maybe it could be set up where each server only controlled a certain portion of the map(s). So two people at the brittain bank would have to be on the same server, and leaving one region or map for another would somehow send you to one of the other servers. I guess that would solve the problem I mentioned above. (assuming it was a problem, I don't know that much about this stuff).

[Zippy]

Linked shards like the are the reason OSI had (and still has) so many dupe bugs. Back in "the day" you could overload your bankbox with a few thousand items, and when you crossed a boundry to another server, it wouldn't be able to handle the transfer, causing the servers to loose sync and crash, and you could wind up with 2 of something where you only had one before.

At any rate, it would not work as has been described in this thread, if you want 2 servers to share a world and users between them, then the servers have to use the SAME internet connection. All connections to the servers are routed through a central server. This is how it works on OSI, and thats how it would have to work if runuo ever did it. This way, you can switch subservers without ever knowing, since your connection to the route/gateway server never dies, but internally you're switched to a different box. I don't know many people interested in running free player shards who have a connection to support a userbase that arrents more than 1 box, besides for the price of two boxes, you could build one very nice box.

RunUO won't ever have multi server, mostly because it's totally unnessicary, the largest player run shard I ever heard of was about 200 players online, to need mutli server you'd have to have well over 1000 silumtainious connections.

[Braun]

Originally Posted by Phantom

WE Cannot share PLAYERS its not Possible to many factors.

Drop the subject it WILL NOT HAPPEN

That was completely uncalled for and down right rude.
The last time I checked, this forum was entitled "RUNUO DISCUSSION"

Thema was simply stating ideas, and was looking for advice and thoughts on the subject and it was a very legit question at that.

What good is a discussion board, if people dont want to hear the discussion.

I'm very confused at the positive outlook about RUNUO.
We all should be in high spirits and supportive, but all I see here is negativity.

"RUNUO will never be that big and it will never happen".

Great attitude.

RUNUO will only be as big as its supporters, nothing is impossible.
I for one am very excited and proud of the progression of RUNUO.
And I know there is lots of room for expansion.

If you would have told gamers 20 years ago that one day they would play a game online with thousands of other users at the same time, IN REAL TIME, and chat with each other in real time, they would have laughed at you and said you were nuts and that it is impossible.

Dont say it is not gonna happen, cause one day , it will.

Some people think this is nonsense and needs to be discussed no more,
but Ill tell you this, every idea in this world had to start somewhere, and most of them have been shot down and ridiculed, but they were accomplished none the less.

So I say:

Great brain work Thema, its thoughts like yours that make technology what it is today, and what seems farfetched now, becomes reality in the end.

Five years ago, if you were to tell microchip designers that it would be great to make a processor that will run at speeds of 3 g's, they would have laughed in your face, but guess what, it is here today.




[/quote]

[Gustavo]

Braun..dont pay attention to him.

Pay attention to what the devs says (Ryan, Zippy, Krrios), they are usually right and willing to help, especially on IRC.

[chad]

Braun, Thema, some of us heard you. Neither of you spoke insult to anybody.

Gustavo; Neither braun nor thema said ANYTHING at all against ryan zippy or krrios.

There's nothing wrong with thinking gustavo. That IS how thoughts happen.

Some people think, and some people learn from the thinking of others. This is an old and known fact. Welcome to the thread Gus, anything insightful other than "don't think" to add to it?

[Braun]

Oh no, If something I said, seemed like I was speaking out of line, or something bad about Ryan, Zippy or Krrios, then I will apologize.

They are doing a great job, its the rude uncalled for attitudes against a proper discussion that urked me. The people that are not even devs get on here and tell us what we can and cant discuss.

If this were a support thread, then i could see it, but it is not.
It is a discussion.

Phantom stated his opinion, and I stated mine,
Nothing wrong with a mans opinion.

[thema]

I'm sorry to see that so many have been burned out so young

I have to admit that even as I wrote the initial post I was aware that the idea must have been aired at least once before :? Okay so maybe about a million times then

However I keep seeing people stuck in the same groove with this.
I already know that shards on the whole are small, but how much is that because for most of us the upper limit is only 50-100 clients before our internet connections grind to a halt?

What I was proposing was more a way of sharing bandwidth, rather then raw processing power.

As for how one would overcome boundary cheats, and other problems. I haven't a clue. I can certainly see how it could be very difficult to do it.

In fact I can see a situation with a bad connection, of a player flickering in and out like a broken light bulb...

Thema.

[Gustavo]

lol it must be my bad english sometimes

I didnt mean " dont pay attention to Braun", in fact Braun was doing good with his opinion.

I meant that Braun shouldnt pay attention to those who try to (block?) his opinions. And he should listen to Devs because they have the final sayings about how will RunUO develop, not anyone else heh.

I hope this post was a little clearer than the other one, for those other words were not what i really meant

[Braun]

Thanks Gustavo, I appreciate the insight.

I thought thats what you meant, but I wanted to be sure that I to didnt come out wrong.

Thanks for clearing that up..