staff trust

[r0fflecakes]

Most of my shard's staff also plays regular chars, and I don't want anyone to possibly suspect that they cheat by adding items and such, and I don't want anyone to suspect that they add items for friends and what not. I also suspect that it's already been done and it only takes one instance for people to start getting turned off by staff corruption. These people are very close friends so kicking them from their position is my last resort, though I do what I have to do...

What would be the best approach to take to ensure trust of staff not cheating? I was thinking some kind of log of added/props items that is made public. Something like:

GM name: used command on 0x0000blah item

I could also include a way ingame for anyone to get a serial number of an item like a [getserial command. So basically if a staff member or even myself was to cheat, anyone could easily track it when they see an item they think might be added by a gm. Just wondering what approach others have taken to ensure trust of staff when they also play regular chars or have close friends that do.

[mordero]

I believe a log is kept for what commands any staff uses so you could keep track.

[Makaar]

I had the same problem on our shard with my brother and another friend cheating to rez friends and give them free ammo for bows/crossbows, etc. I watched one time as they were using GM's unfairly, and simply removed their accounts and said that if integrity was to be sustained, you can't use "cheat codes" in an MMO or the gameplay becomes lackluster. To put it simply, only myself is a GM now. The main thing that keeps players coming back is that chance to strive in a game like UO (not to sound corny). If you make everything easy to get and take away the challenge there is nothing to keep the person coming back.

A little long-winded, yes, but its what I did. Ya' do what you gotta' do. Since its a video game your friends shouldn't hate you for deleting their GM accounts.

[HellRazor]

I have found it almost impossible to find staff that won't use their GM powers to do little "favors" for friends, especially when they are allowed to play normal characters. Even close friends who you think you can trust, and no matter how many times you explain the rules and why you have them.

I'd say 1 out of every 10 won't abuse their powers.

I recommend a long probation period for staff, and anyone you catch doing this stuff gets taken off staff immediately.

[andrewd]

Dont Have Staff!!!

[DreamCatcher]

Well in my opinion you can go thru logs to see whats going on with your staff. It shows everything they have added. Now with my brothers shard I help run for him any staff that was on that stayed on their staff char a lot I would tell them give their self what they needed. They didn't have time to work up a char or get things in game. I had one that played on his char a lot and when he got on his gm he would give himself a lot of things. I warned him, because I found what he was doing in the logs. He did it again so he was no longer a gm. He played plenty on his char and not his staff so he had plenty of opportunity to work his char up without cheating.

I didn't consider my admins, seers, gms cheating that stayed on this staff a lot to help the shard out when they gave their self things.

[DreamCatcher]

Originally Posted by andrewd

Dont Have Staff!!!

Well thats kinda hard to do when you need staff...If you only have a few playing thats fine, but when you have people needing help you need staff...

[Anti-Basic]

don't hire anyone who doesn't live within 30 miles or so. that way, when they piss ya off, just drive over and kick their ass.

[Malaperth]

You can also change AccessLevel requirements for commands and limit what your non-Admin/Owner staff can do.

[Anti-Basic]

or heres an idea.. actually utilize the entire counselor rank. I've seen maybe 5 shards (that werent one of the huge ones) that even had counselors. I don't understand why so few people want to be a counselor.

[InOverMyHead]

I had the same problem on my shard. There were a few that I had to get rid of their staff accounts after numerous warnings.
After I did that, it didn't stop. My GMs were still giving stuff to their regular players and friends. So, I changed the access level on everything I could think of. That seemed to work.

[Gaea]

I have a somewhat unique system on my shard that seems to work well.
I won;t go into full detail here...but basically I keep logs, check them regularly and make portions available upon request to players. (I block out specific details though like ip's, act name etc.)

But say if Player A says, "GM 1 spied on my guild meeting and told his friends (our rivals) what happened, then gave them extra stuff and maybe new armor"

I say...ok wait a min, I'd get the log copy the pertinent parts to prove or disprove the accusation...and post it on our forums.

Theres a little more to it, but if a staffer is proven "guilty" he is demoted and put on probation for a time. If it's more then once, he's fired, or at least has to stay a counselor.

I've found that when staff KNOW they will be held accountable for their actions...and they WANT to stay and play without hassle...they tend to be more honest. Most of them anyway.

Good staff should be cultivated and nurtured...just like good players. You'll never make everyone happy all the time, but there can be compromise.

[Peoharen]

Originally Posted by HellRazor

I have found it almost impossible to find staff that won't use their GM powers to do little "favors" for friends, especially when they are allowed to play normal characters. Even close friends who you think you can trust, and no matter how many times you explain the rules and why you have them.

I'd say 1 out of every 10 won't abuse their powers.

I recommend a long probation period for staff, and anyone you catch doing this stuff gets taken off staff immediately.

BS, 1 out of 1,000^googlepex don't cheat.

Hell even I cheat. Why use a crummy decorater tool to move stuff around when you have UOAR?

Originally Posted by Anti-Basic

don't hire anyone who doesn't live within 30 miles or so. that way, when they piss ya off, just drive over and kick their ass.

QFT.

Originally Posted by Anti-Basic

or heres an idea.. actually utilize the entire counselor rank. I've seen maybe 5 shards (that werent one of the huge ones) that even had counselors. I don't understand why so few people want to be a counselor.

AB's been reading fortune cookies again.

Originally Posted by InOverMyHead

I had the same problem on my shard. There were a few that I had to get rid of their staff accounts after numerous warnings.
After I did that, it didn't stop. My GMs were still giving stuff to their regular players and friends. So, I changed the access level on everything I could think of. That seemed to work.

Try firing them. ALL of them.

Originally Posted by Gaea

I have a somewhat unique system on my shard that seems to work well.
I won;t go into full detail here...but basically I keep logs, check them regularly and make portions available upon request to players. (I block out specific details though like ip's, act name etc.)

But say if Player A says, "GM 1 spied on my guild meeting and told his friends (our rivals) what happened, then gave them extra stuff and maybe new armor"

I say...ok wait a min, I'd get the log copy the pertinent parts to prove or disprove the accusation...and post it on our forums.

Theres a little more to it, but if a staffer is proven "guilty" he is demoted and put on probation for a time. If it's more then once, he's fired, or at least has to stay a counselor.

I've found that when staff KNOW they will be held accountable for their actions...and they WANT to stay and play without hassle...they tend to be more honest. Most of them anyway.

Good staff should be cultivated and nurtured...just like good players. You'll never make everyone happy all the time, but there can be compromise.

Rule 1: You are not to join in on PVP in anyway.
No competition that way.

Rule 2: You are to check with a Seer before adding something.
So you can create a time line and search is they added anything outside that time line.

Rule 3: You won't simply be fired, you will be banned permently if you break the rules.
You really think I like you cheating?

Build your staff rules off that.

Also, log spells cast by GM and lock your counselors like OSI does.
You can edit the core and add commands to add in a handy dandy GMC bool too. Never mention what GMC means and when asked say it's part of the SVN your running. Create a remove command that deletes all non static/spawner/teleporter/BaseEventItem items that have the tag set to true.

This is your nuke bomb. if cheating it's so out of hand fire it. At beast staff have to redress them selves. At worst, half your players lose stuff and you broke up a illegal item trade system the GMs were doing.

If the bomb is too much you can always create a script to create a text based document that lists who all have the unwanted items. You can vist the players ingame and question them or remove the item.

[Pyro-Tech]

what is GMC??

[HellRazor]

Originally Posted by Peoharen

BS, 1 out of 1,000^googlepex don't cheat.

Hell even I cheat. Why use a crummy decorater tool to move stuff around when you have UOAR?

Rule 1: You are not to join in on PVP in anyway.
No competition that way.

Rule 2: You are to check with a Seer before adding something.
So you can create a time line and search is they added anything outside that time line.

Rule 3: You won't simply be fired, you will be banned permently if you break the rules.
You really think I like you cheating?

Build your staff rules off that.

If everyone cheats, why have rules? :P

Originally Posted by Pyro-Tech

what is GMC??

Basically what he is saying is, modify the commands to add a flag to every item created by a staff member so that you can easily wipe them all from the shard if desired.

[Rabban]

Simple Rule: Don't do for yourself or your friends what you wouldn't do for anyone on the shard.

In addition add a rule about not giving out items, thus no one should receive items.

I think the whole problem with log checking, not allowing GMs to make items, or adding that bool to provide easy item removal is that what about Quests? A quest generally will have prizes and such and the GM will need to make them and the players be able to keep them.

Quest making leads me to the other personal experience of being a "Quest Coordinator." On the shard I staffed, I was in charge of creating and running all the quests. I did have a player account and as you logically can see, he never got to particpate in any quests (and not get any quest prizes). Seldomly, I would do "favors" as someone else for myself to compensate myself. These favors would not be crazy, and I'll also mention I did not have two accounts so I was unable to change my own character.

[Mentose]

In real life, sometimes its impossible to watch all the angles. Lets say at a school they just don't have enough money to pay for eyes to watch more than 15 cameras. But instead, they don't place only 15 cameras, they place 20-30 and some of them are just dummies.

They work just as effectively as no one knows if its a real camera or not.

So my point is, don't just implement the system. Tell your admins its running. Let them know there are eyes in the sky, just don't tell them exactly where they are.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by r0fflecakes

What would be the best approach to take to ensure trust of staff not cheating?

Run the server yourself...

Seriously tho, on my friends server, I wrote some systems that made it so that everything worked on a global level, for instance, weapons and armor, all base types had the same ar and damage on a global level, there is no need for one katana to be higher damage then another if they are the same. Then i hardcoded bonus damage in so that no staff could change damage levels. Then in the code spots where u adjust it in the props menu, i logged what ppl were trying to do, and walla, you can catch ppl in the act, and it doesnt effect your server.

In addition to this, it made modifying spell, weapon and armor damages and ratings all doable in game without having to restart

[Asmir3]

Well I think Jeff said it all, what I do is make so they can only do [self res that way they can only res them self or [self kill, I leave the [res, and [kill up to the owner access. I love the logs because when staff do something they say they don't and when u prove them wrong they are like I wont do it again and I don't listen to that bullshit. I also don't hire anyone that I don't know much about. I ran about 10 *120 pvp* servers so far for fun and yes staff love to missed around, now that I know and starting a REAL Server I know what to do and how to run it, so if this is ur first time running a server I would recommend you get some experience first hand by running those 120 pvp servers.

[Peoharen]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Run the server yourself...

Seriously tho, on my friends server, I wrote some systems that made it so that everything worked on a global level, for instance, weapons and armor, all base types had the same ar and damage on a global level, there is no need for one katana to be higher damage then another if they are the same. Then i hardcoded bonus damage in so that no staff could change damage levels. Then in the code spots where u adjust it in the props menu, i logged what ppl were trying to do, and walla, you can catch ppl in the act, and it doesnt effect your server.

In addition to this, it made modifying spell, weapon and armor damages and ratings all doable in game without having to restart

See, your talking Pre-AOS, far easyer to control since runics have a set rate.
In AOS it's all dnymic, a staffer can hunt paragon anceint wryms off the loggs and come out with some high level loot. The and enhance stuff and leave their name off the item as well.

Which is why I don't think GMs sould have any skill higher than 0.0.

Originally Posted by Asmir3

Well I think Jeff said it all, what I do is make so they can only do [self res that way they can only res them self or [self kill, I leave the [res, and [kill up to the owner access. I love the logs because when staff do something they say they don't and when u prove them wrong they are like I wont do it again and I don't listen to that bullshit. I also don't hire anyone that I don't know much about. I ran about 10 *120 pvp* servers so far for fun and yes staff love to missed around, now that I know and starting a REAL Server I know what to do and how to run it, so if this is ur first time running a server I would recommend you get some experience first hand by running those 120 pvp servers.

I once had a GM casting res on players.
I've heard of counselors carrying loot as if they were a unkillable mule.

What is not logged will be abused.
Log spells cast by staff.

Nerfing a GM's access is another place to start but then you'll be posting about how seers are abusing and cheating...

[zero]

In regards to this, I've administered many servers. The way that ended up working the best for me was to make almost all the staff counselor level. It is easy to add/remove commands to AccessLevel.Counselor to ones that you don't think can be abused. (However you do have to watch pulling/spying/etc). Second have few with access above this and check logs regularly. Check dupes/sets amount etc. People who are cheaters usually wont take longer than 2 weeks before they start. But continue to check the logs and remove those members that do cheat.

After all, they are only people. I suggest also having a minimal staff and making script changes to assist players as needed.

[viront]

As Peoharen Peoharen said, people are going to cheat if they can. I suggest you take the same approach as a Database Adminstrator would take. That is, only give access as needed. The counsellor access level is a good idea if you don't feel like hand editing a bunch of scripts, of course if you have a shard that actually needs staff then you have probably done a good amount of hand editing to make a staff-worthy shard!

Taking the comparison to a DBA further I've thinking of actual usergroups. You can already make anything require a specific access level, of course... That makes a simple greater than or less than test. But it would be interesting to have a staff member who handles item replacement (trusted member ) and another that can hand out gold and bank checks. You may want another who can only edit accounts. The more roles you specific roles you want the more difficult it becomes to use the greater than less than system that is used right now, not that it isn't sufficient for most. Its just that when you 'exclude' someone from a role they have to be lower on the pole and this won't work for what I'm thinking.

I haven't really thought up a good way to do this yet but I'm keeping it in mind.

Oh and yes you can view all commands your staff have used in this folder "RunUO-2.0-RC1\Logs\Commands\". It can be messy so if you plan to check it frequently I would suggest making a parser that lets you sort by specific commands. Even better, one that checks the logs folder for specific commands and alerts you when certain commands are used. For example "[add gold" or "[setallskills" used by anyone but the Owner would throw up a red flag.

Making that parser seems like fun... I really need to concentrate on one project...

[poolmanjim]

I've been a GM, Admin and Counselor on several shards. I am not going to lie. Occasionally I help myself out with some extra cash or take the -1 Fast cast off of a weapon.

I also rez friends when they are fighting... I res everyone else too when I'm poofing around watching for blunders. I'm guility of this just like 95% of the other GMs out there. Everyone does it and a lot of times the Admins are the WORST.

Little things usually arn't a big deal with me. I currently am the Head Gm on a server and I wouldn't jump on my GM's case if they modded a sword a little or something. There are margins on all sides to allow the game to be fun.

But staff should be held accountable. I agree fully. If you dont wnat your staff making things then be strict about it. Period. Rules are good but remember it is a game and it is to be fun, staff should have fun just like the players do because if they aren't having fun why are they staff? Fun is what t his is all about. Sometimes things are taken a little too seriously.

Be strict when necessary. Ban when necessary but dont freak out because of the little stuff, it makes 0 sense.

[Anti-Basic]

Originally Posted by poolmanjim

I've been a GM, Admin and Counselor on several shards. I am not going to lie. Occasionally I help myself out with some extra cash or take the -1 Fast cast off of a weapon.

I also rez friends when they are fighting... I res everyone else too when I'm poofing around watching for blunders. I'm guility of this just like 95% of the other GMs out there. Everyone does it and a lot of times the Admins are the WORST.

Little things usually arn't a big deal with me. I currently am the Head Gm on a server and I wouldn't jump on my GM's case if they modded a sword a little or something. There are margins on all sides to allow the game to be fun.

But staff should be held accountable. I agree fully. If you dont wnat your staff making things then be strict about it. Period. Rules are good but remember it is a game and it is to be fun, staff should have fun just like the players do because if they aren't having fun why are they staff? Fun is what t his is all about. Sometimes things are taken a little too seriously.

Be strict when necessary. Ban when necessary but dont freak out because of the little stuff, it makes 0 sense.

Yeah umm... if you res anyone with your gm powers while they are fighting.. PvM OR PvP, you are interfering in their gameplay and that just fucked up...