What is the Ideal system for RunUO?

[EmberSkyTwilight]

I was just wondering what the ultimate system specifications would be?

[WeEzL]

Originally Posted by Phantom

The 2 Pent D computer I describe, you could get a build started at about $1000 ( $700 for two Pent D's, $300 for a server motherboard ). You would have to add maybe an additional $500 for memory, then of course storage is an entire another story. With storage being as cheap as it is today, you could get a nice RAID small amount of space but performance wise it would be better, I suspect at about $500 ( thats 2 hd's on Raid 1 , and 2 hd's on Raid 0 ).

Unfortunately, such a beast that would run two ordinary Pentium D CPUs in SMP does not exist. AFAIK, regular run of the mill desktop Pentiums lack the ability to run in SMP meaning you have to go with Xeons for multiprocessor capabilities... and to get dual core Xeons, you're looking at LOTS of cash (like $900 or so per CPU for just 2.8GHz). You may also have a hard time finding a decent server motherboard for $300... make it like $400-$500 and you probably have a winner. As for memory, because you're most likely going to require ECC RAM, it's going to run around $100 to $120 per gig.

An AMD Opteron system will run quite a bit cheaper especially for a dual core dual CPU system, but it will still set you back about $2000 for the basics like a dual CPU motherboard, two Opteron 265's (the cheapest dual core Opterons available), a couple gigs of ECC Registered RAM and at least a decent power supply to run the whole thing. The Opteron system will also run a fair bit cooler and consume a lot less power than the Intel system.

However, if you're really looking to put together a dual core dual CPU server system, you may want to consider the new Dempsey/Woodcrest core Xeons from Intel. Intel has REALLY sharpened their pencils and you can get some wickedly fast dual core Xeons now for a fraction of the price as previous. However, the big cost in such a system now is the RAM... the new motherboards use "fully buffered DDR2" which, considering it is new technology, costs an arm and a leg... like in the area of $200 per gig, but you could have a pair of 3.0GHz Dempseys for around $300 each and a motherboard to run them in for about $400-$500.

[EmberSkyTwilight]

How many simultanious users can log onto the system described.

[WeEzL]

Um... "Lots" would be the only estimation I could give you personally (and by "lots" I'm thinking in the neighborhood of a couple hundred). There may, however, be someone within the forums who has a server with a similar configuration who could give you a more accurate answer.

Keep in mind as well that your server is only half the equation. The other half of the equation is your internet connection. It almost makes no sense to have an overly powerful server if you wish to run your shard on your home DSL or cable internet connection. Each connected client requires a certain amount of bandwidth (the actual number escapes me at the moment) and on a DSL connection, for instance, you may only be able to support 20 or 30 simultaneous users before you start experiencing lag. Cable internet is usually a bit better because it usually comes with slightly higher upload rates compared with DSL. If you want the most utilization out of a high end server as specified above, your best bet would be co-location at an ISP's data center. Many offer co-location services which tie you right into their backbone via a 10Mbps connection. Your other option is to rent a server from a company that offers that service... it is usually a cheaper method than purchasing the hardware outright and it is usually much easier to upgrade that way.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by WeEzL

Unfortunately, such a beast that would run two ordinary Pentium D CPUs in SMP does not exist. AFAIK, regular run of the mill desktop Pentiums lack the ability to run in SMP meaning you have to go with Xeons for multiprocessor capabilities... and to get dual core Xeons, you're looking at LOTS of cash (like $900 or so per CPU for just 2.8GHz). You may also have a hard time finding a decent server motherboard for $300... make it like $400-$500 and you probably have a winner. As for memory, because you're most likely going to require ECC RAM, it's going to run around $100 to $120 per gig.

An AMD Opteron system will run quite a bit cheaper especially for a dual core dual CPU system, but it will still set you back about $2000 for the basics like a dual CPU motherboard, two Opteron 265's (the cheapest dual core Opterons available), a couple gigs of ECC Registered RAM and at least a decent power supply to run the whole thing. The Opteron system will also run a fair bit cooler and consume a lot less power than the Intel system.

However, if you're really looking to put together a dual core dual CPU server system, you may want to consider the new Dempsey/Woodcrest core Xeons from Intel. Intel has REALLY sharpened their pencils and you can get some wickedly fast dual core Xeons now for a fraction of the price as previous. However, the big cost in such a system now is the RAM... the new motherboards use "fully buffered DDR2" which, considering it is new technology, costs an arm and a leg... like in the area of $200 per gig, but you could have a pair of 3.0GHz Dempseys for around $300 each and a motherboard to run them in for about $400-$500.

I didn't know that about Pents, thanks for the lesson.

I think our basic suggest was, dual dual core, would you agree with that? I only say dual dual core, because Pent 4 EE's are dual ht's yet they are as expensive as those xeons are.

[WeEzL]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I think our basic suggest was, dual dual core, would you agree with that?

Yep, we're certainly on the same page here.

[WeEzL]

Originally Posted by EmberSkyTwilight

I am wondering how many users could be logged simultaniously if my system was limited to 1.5 Mb/s ?

Is that your upload speed or download speed? With both DSL and cable, the upload speed is usually a fraction of what the download speed is which would be the limiting factor that determines the maximum number of simultaneous players supported.

[EmberSkyTwilight]

Ok, the best DSL my telephone company has is Upload/Download 512k/1.5M . How many users would run simultaniously on that?

[WeEzL]

First off, I'm taking a wild guess based on info I've gathered in the past. That being said, my guess may not be completely accurate. Based on that DSL connection, you might be able to support around 50 users online at one time (give or take about 10 users) before lag starts to be a problem. This would be if you could actually get and maintain at least close to the theoretical maximums of the DSL connection you quoted. Of course, this is only a guess at this point. I'm sure there are others out there that could confirm or deny it based on their own experiences.

[Marine_3038]

Now I guess hte question would be which version of Runuo you plan using.I had a 800 mhz with 256 ram hosting on dsl busines line hosted up to about 40 people no prob on 1.0 version I upgraded the server to a 1.6 ghz with 512 ddr on 2.0 UO I hosted my self with lag so bad I take two steps wait 5 mins lol But yes the dual mother boards our for hosting servers. But if your poor like me a cheap pc with lot of ram will do fine. Just make sure you have alot of ram an u run version 1.0 cause I have no idea whats up with 2.0 sucking spu useage sky high,must be a bug.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by EmberSkyTwilight

Can I set up a server on dual Pentium M's? I think I could keep it running on less electricity? Is Pentium M a feasable server chip?

Why would you want to use a laptop cpu for a server?

[EmberSkyTwilight]

I was thinking I could save power with the laptop processor.

[WeEzL]

Originally Posted by EmberSkyTwilight

Can I set up a server on dual Pentium M's? I think I could keep it running on less electricity? Is Pentium M a feasable server chip?

Dual? No... they are just like regular Pentiums... they cannot be run in multiprocessor mode. You can get low power dual core Pentiums... I believe they are the Core Duos, but last I remember, they were rather costly.

Personally, I wouldn't go Pentium M... I'm not saying they aren't a viable option for a low power RunUO server, but basically, there's other options out there that offer more power for less money and still could be classed as low power.

For a low cost solution, you have a couple choices. The first is to forget Intel and go AMD. AMD runs cooler and requires a lot less power and will perform on par with or better than Intel CPUs.

Or, go with a new Dempsey core Xeon processor as I mentioned a couple posts earlier. They are designed to require a lot less power. The only problem is that the new Xeons are still server class CPUs and therefore require a server class motherboard which can get costly especially considering they are new technology. Add in the fully buffered RAM as I stated a couple posts ago, and you can expect a hefty price tag.

Given these two options, if you're designing an entry level server for RunUO use, I'd recommend the AMD solution. They are readily available at pretty much any computer store, you have your choice of lots of different motherboards, and they are not hard on your wallet at all even for the dual core X2 series. They already require less power than a comparable Intel chip and generate less heat too.

If cost is no object and you're designing a full fledged server class system, go with the Dempsey core Xeons, or look into AMD's Opteron platform.

[EmberSkyTwilight]

If I went with the dual core X2 series Opteron, would I go with a dual or quad motherboard? Would RunUO utilize a quad Opteron MOBO?

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by EmberSkyTwilight

If I went with the dual core X2 series Opteron, would I go with a dual or quad motherboard? Would RunUO utilize a quad Opteron MOBO?

RunUO 2.0 will utilize every cpu thread that exists on a system.

Your only limited by the OS support.

[EmberSkyTwilight]

I am a loser with nothing better to do than GM. I was looking for the ultimate open source gaming server platform. The most technicle thing I've done Is set up the boot disks for dos games. I have games like Dungeon Siege and Neverwinter Nights. I am looking for a GM platform. The prospects of this software have me excited wondering how I can get one running. I was thinking I could set up a sever at a DSL. Then get Cellulor Laptop access and GM from a remote location wherever I might happen to be. If I had portable solar panels, I could take Ultima Online camping. LOL

[WeEzL]

Go with a dual processor board AT MOST... Even then, if you're planning on hosting a shard using the DSL connection you stated earlier on in a previous post, a dual processor system would be serious overkill. An AMD Athlon X2 system will be more than suitable... In fact, a good Athlon X2 system will be more than suitable to support a couple hundred users online at one time.

Just out of curiosity, how many users do you plan on supporting simultaneously with this server? What kind of connection do you plan on utilizing for it? I mean, we may be going about this in the wrong way... you asked what was the best and we gave you what we thought was the best. But many successful shards are currently run on LESS THAN HALF the power of the system specs we mentioned. I guess my point is ultimately, it's OK to build up to a multiprocessor system as your shard grows, but it's serious OVERKILL for just starting out.

EDIT: Just for the sake of saying so, a 4-way Opteron system would probably run you in the neighborhood of $7000 to $10000. When you get into multiprocessor territory, nothing is cheap anymore.

[EmberSkyTwilight]

I would be running 512k/1.5M max. I would want the most reliable system ideally. I am also looking for the least power consumption supporting a number of users on a 512k/1.5M connection speed.

[EmberSkyTwilight]

What would be the Ideal RunUO 2.0 server, for 100 users, on a budget?

[WeEzL]

OK... then my suggestion is to try an AMD Athlon X2 3800+ or higher with a plain socket 939 motherboard like a ASUS A8N-E, and at least 1GB-2GB of RAM to start. You don't need a flashy video card at all.. just something to provide you a view of the console window. With a fast hard drive in there like a Western Digital Raptor, and a decent case with a good power supply to power the whole thing properly, you'd have a pretty good server going. Much cheaper and will ultimately draw less power than a multiprocessor system right off the bat.

Of course, the decision on what you want to go with is yours... it's your shard, your server... I'm only here to give suggestions.

[EmberSkyTwilight]

If I go with a dual processor Opteron, Is there anyway to get more bandwith than 512 kbps?

[WeEzL]

Please don't take this the wrong way but why do you feel you need a dual CPU motherboard? Is it just to have one for the "cool" factor? I said it in not so many words already, you do not need dual CPU if you're just going to use it for RunUO especially with the meager number of users you wish to support and the internet connection you're going to use it on. Heck, you don't even NEED dual core, but I just recommended it anyway because it's not that much more expensive than a single core CPU.

Besides "multiprocessor" and "on a budget" (as you stated in a post above) do not go hand in hand. There is no "budget" multiprocessor stuff and if it appears to be budget, there's usually a reason behind it (like it sucks). For even a basic multiprocessor system, you should be willing to spend at least $3000 to $5000... period.

[EmberSkyTwilight]

There is only one internet provider where I live and it's the telephone company. I am wondering, How do I get more bandwith than dsl they have?

[WeEzL]

Originally Posted by EmberSkyTwilight

If I go with a dual processor Opteron, Is there anyway to get more bandwith than 512 kbps?

There are a couple options....

1) Co-location... you pay your ISP to host your server in their data center. You pay them for the service (on average around $100 a month) and you get a fairly high monthly transfer limit and they connect you to their backbone via usually a 10Mbit connection.

2) Rent a server from a company that offers this service. Sometimes slightly more than co-location, the good part is if something goes wrong with your server, they will fix it because they maintain ownership of the hardware. Again, usually hooked up to their backbone via 10Mbit connection. EV1Servers is one place that I can think of off hand that does it.

3) Look into the possibility of residential T1 service with ISPs or telecom companies in your area. I've heard of places in the U.S. having this as an option. I know here in Canada, we're limited to DSL and cable internet. A T1 is 1.544Mbits up and down but because they are sorta specialized services, I would assume the costs might be a bit more than other residential services.

4) Cable internet.... usually they have slightly higher limits than DSL, but not by any high margin. Besides that, cable is still a shared service meaning you aren't guaranteed to reach the high speeds that the cable ISP may quote you. In fact, during peak internet hours, you might find you get only a fraction of the speeds you should be getting. Much of that is also dependent on how many other people on your block are on the same cable, and the infrastructure your cable ISP has in place to handle it.

Those are a few of the options I could think of. Hope that helps.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by WeEzL

Please don't take this the wrong way but why do you feel you need a dual CPU motherboard? Is it just to have one for the "cool" factor? I said it in not so many words already, you do not need dual CPU if you're just going to use it for RunUO especially with the meager number of users you wish to support and the internet connection you're going to use it on. Heck, you don't even NEED dual core, but I just recommended it anyway because it's not that much more expensive than a single core CPU.

Besides "multiprocessor" and "on a budget" (as you stated in a post above) do not go hand in hand. There is no "budget" multiprocessor stuff and if it appears to be budget, there's usually a reason behind it (like it sucks). For even a basic multiprocessor system, you should be willing to spend at least $3000 to $5000... period.

The only reason I suggested a dual cpu motherboard, is he asked the ideal system, never mentioned it was on a budget. Lets face it $3000 on a server computer, that would be capable of doing alot more then running a shard, is well worth the money if you have the right connection.

The problem I see is the user, is on a home dsl connection with limited bandwidth and is expecting to much from their service.