Running Razor on Linux - RunUO

Killamus · 02-12-2007, 01:35 AM

Just wondering, is this possible? And if so, how? Is it the same way as to install UO using WINE?

Jason · 02-12-2007, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

Just wondering, is this possible? And if so, how? Is it the same way as to install UO using WINE?

As long as you can install the .NET Framework within WINE I cannot think of a reason why it wouldn't work.

xandros 4.0 · 06-30-2007, 12:29 AM

I was unable to get the .net framework to run, as it needs Internet explorer 5.0 or greater to even install. Thus, I would have to install a useless program to install another useless program to get to run the program I intend to run in the first place.

I've searched for a while around google and have found no native linux version of Razor, either. Anyone happen to be working on it? Also, are there really enough people wanting to run Razor in Linux to warrant somebody spending precious hours/days compiling it for us linux peeps? Is there a way we could start some sort of Linux tally for linux users to "vote" for a native linux version of Razor?

I searched around for past replies to said question of razor in linux, and they seem to go as far back as 2004. Mono may be more developed now than it was then, so I will try that. I also understand the seemingly impossible task of creating a native linux version of said program. Many things we use today were thought impossible at some point in the past. I still hope it can be made possible. UO already runs many times faster under linux than it ever did in windows, but it is just not the same without Razor :-)

Heroin-demise · 06-30-2007, 11:57 AM

I think that wine should detect the MONO framework and then just link that through as having .NET installed. I have a UOclient installed via wine and used uorice to remove encryption.

**Zippy** · 06-30-2007, 04:52 PM

It is unlikely that Razor will ever work on linux. If so, it would need to be run under WINE, but I highly doubt it is possible. Razor does a lot of memory manipulating that is not very usual for a program to do, and is not something I woudl expect WINE to support at all.

In short, if you want to play UO, why not play it on Windows? It is a Windows game after all. At any rate, you will probably never get Razor to run on linux. End of story.

Travis-demise · 07-13-2007, 08:22 PM

I run virtualbox windows xp and i get perfect quality like native running uo and uokr so give that a try maybe.
only reason i do that is because razor dont work with linux nor does uoassist :<

**Jeff** · 07-14-2007, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis-demise

I run virtualbox windows xp and i get perfect quality like native running uo and uokr so give that a try maybe.
only reason i do that is because razor dont work with linux nor does uoassist :<

Ya cause they both use the win32 api.

jezzza234 · 07-14-2007, 09:35 PM

I don't understand why so many people are convinced that Razor will never run on Linux. That is quite simply not true.

The thing to remember is that Razor doesn't exactly run on Windows either. It is a .Net application and hence requires the .Net runtime in order to work. In Windows we have Microsoft's implementation of it, but the .Net Framework is an open standard that can be implemented on various operating systems, not just Windows.

Someone mentioned Mono. Well that is the best implementation of .Net on Mac and Linux. Last I checked (I am a .Net architect by the way) it still didn't fully support .Net 2. It seems to have most of it covered, but not on the presentation layer side of things, which is obviously a key thing for gaming

Let me say though, it most definitely will be finished and definitely will fully support .Net 2 before too long. Therefore I can say with certainty that if Mono won't run Razor now, it definitely will do soon.

Having said all this, the difficult part may be Razor hooking up to the UO client. I have no idea how it does that now, and not knowing that I also don't know whether it would be able to detect the UO client running via Wine. That is the part that I would be concerned about, not the actual running of Razor.

**Zippy** · 07-14-2007, 10:21 PM

Unfortunently, it quite simply is true. Razor will never run on Linux.

If Razor was a pure .Net program, it would probably be possible to get it to run on Linux under Mono. But that isn't the case.

In order to hook into the UO Client Razor does several modifcations directly to client memory which I do not think Linux/WINE would tolerate.

The final nail in the coffin: Most (90%+) of the client manipulation code is done in a native C++ DLL using native windows APIs. Razor is not pure .Net, it is about 35000 lines of C# and about 5000 lines of C++.

So, you will probably never be able to get Razor working on Linux "out of the box." It would probably require extensive internal reorganization to make it possible, if it is possible at all which I don't believe is the case. Where there is a will, there is a way.... but I am sad to say that there is almost no interest in getting Razor running on linux (99.9% of people don't care at all, and the other 0.1% would love it if it ran on Linux, but they put up with it on Windows) so it is unlikely I will ever put forth the time to make that happen. As it is now my time for UO is seriously limited (thus the reason why it has been several months since a release).

jezzza234 · 07-14-2007, 11:50 PM

Ok fair enough, like I said I didn't know how you were hooking up to the UO client. Thats a shame

I sort of lost interest in UO years ago, but always return every so often

You will probably do the same, I don't know many people who completely quit.

Is there any chance of releasing the source code of Razor and getting it maintained that way? Myself and others might be interested in helping to get Linux support, or just doing general maintenance.

System 32 · 07-15-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jezzza234

Is there any chance of releasing the source code of Razor and getting it maintained that way? Myself and others might be interested in helping to get Linux support, or just doing general maintenance.

I think there isnt, and there shouldnt be, Because it would be the end of the uo, you are certainly taking control the client, you are able to do almost everything, this wouldnt be fair lol

Not the source code but, "how to start the client in decrypted state, or how to hook uo client" tutorials would be AWWSOME LOL. I badly need it

Leffe · 07-16-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy

Razor does a lot of memory manipulating that is not very usual for a program to do, and is not something I woudl expect WINE to support at all.

If in doubt, Wine API: The Wine Api Guide

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy

In order to hook into the UO Client Razor does several modifcations directly to client memory which I do not think Linux/WINE would tolerate.

WINE does not only implement the Windows APIs, it also implements the Windows memory model with all it's bugs and peculiarities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy

The final nail in the coffin: Most (90%+) of the client manipulation code is done in a native C++ DLL using native windows APIs. Razor is not pure .Net, it is about 35000 lines of C# and about 5000 lines of C++.

For native Razor with Mono: Define a minimal set of platform-specific functions and put them in a DLL, let users write their own native DLLs and relink the application.

**Zippy** · 07-16-2007, 07:37 PM

I think you missed the part where not only do I not really care about Razor on Linux, but I don't have the time to do it either.

Leffe · 07-17-2007, 07:34 AM

I don't care about all that.

WarAngel · 07-17-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leffe

I don't care about all that.

Then write your own Razor.

Travis-demise · 07-17-2007, 05:15 PM

it be possible to make it all C? or C++? just an idea that's all save me from having to run virtualbox :P.

02-12-2007, 01:35 AM	#1 (permalink)
Killamus Forum Expert Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sitting in a chair fulfilling my life's goal Age: 22 Posts: 2,650	Running Razor on Linux Just wondering, is this possible? And if so, how? Is it the same way as to install UO using WINE? __________________ Procrastinators unite! Tomorrow. Saying that Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.

06-30-2007, 12:29 AM	#3 (permalink)
xandros 4.0 Forum Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1	Razor for Linux I was unable to get the .net framework to run, as it needs Internet explorer 5.0 or greater to even install. Thus, I would have to install a useless program to install another useless program to get to run the program I intend to run in the first place. I've searched for a while around google and have found no native linux version of Razor, either. Anyone happen to be working on it? Also, are there really enough people wanting to run Razor in Linux to warrant somebody spending precious hours/days compiling it for us linux peeps? Is there a way we could start some sort of Linux tally for linux users to "vote" for a native linux version of Razor? I searched around for past replies to said question of razor in linux, and they seem to go as far back as 2004. Mono may be more developed now than it was then, so I will try that. I also understand the seemingly impossible task of creating a native linux version of said program. Many things we use today were thought impossible at some point in the past. I still hope it can be made possible. UO already runs many times faster under linux than it ever did in windows, but it is just not the same without Razor :-) Last edited by xandros 4.0; 06-30-2007 at 12:51 AM. Reason: went back through older posts

06-30-2007, 11:57 AM	#4 (permalink)
Heroin-demise Forum Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 39	=] I think that wine should detect the MONO framework and then just link that through as having .NET installed. I have a UOclient installed via wine and used uorice to remove encryption.

06-30-2007, 04:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
Zippy Administrator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Baltimore, MD Age: 25 Posts: 4,868	It is unlikely that Razor will ever work on linux. If so, it would need to be run under WINE, but I highly doubt it is possible. Razor does a lot of memory manipulating that is not very usual for a program to do, and is not something I woudl expect WINE to support at all. In short, if you want to play UO, why not play it on Windows? It is a Windows game after all. At any rate, you will probably never get Razor to run on linux. End of story. __________________ Zippy, Razor Creator and RunUO Core Developer The RunUO Software Team "Intuition, like a flash of lightning, lasts only for a second. It generally comes when one is tormented by a difficult decipherment and when one reviews in his mind the fruitless experiments already tried. Suddenly the light breaks through and one finds after a few minutes what previous days of labor were unable to reveal." ~The Cryptonomicon

07-13-2007, 08:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
Travis-demise Forum Expert Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 25 Posts: 595	I run virtualbox windows xp and i get perfect quality like native running uo and uokr so give that a try maybe. only reason i do that is because razor dont work with linux nor does uoassist :< __________________ Demise is like America, to many non English speaking people committing crimes, taking jobs because there own country sucks and they cant fix it to be as good as ours. :eek:

07-14-2007, 09:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
jezzza234 Forum Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Age: 29 Posts: 2	I don't understand why so many people are convinced that Razor will never run on Linux. That is quite simply not true. The thing to remember is that Razor doesn't exactly run on Windows either. It is a .Net application and hence requires the .Net runtime in order to work. In Windows we have Microsoft's implementation of it, but the .Net Framework is an open standard that can be implemented on various operating systems, not just Windows. Someone mentioned Mono. Well that is the best implementation of .Net on Mac and Linux. Last I checked (I am a .Net architect by the way) it still didn't fully support .Net 2. It seems to have most of it covered, but not on the presentation layer side of things, which is obviously a key thing for gaming Let me say though, it most definitely will be finished and definitely will fully support .Net 2 before too long. Therefore I can say with certainty that if Mono won't run Razor now, it definitely will do soon. Having said all this, the difficult part may be Razor hooking up to the UO client. I have no idea how it does that now, and not knowing that I also don't know whether it would be able to detect the UO client running via Wine. That is the part that I would be concerned about, not the actual running of Razor.

07-14-2007, 10:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
Zippy Administrator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Baltimore, MD Age: 25 Posts: 4,868	Unfortunently, it quite simply is true. Razor will never run on Linux. If Razor was a pure .Net program, it would probably be possible to get it to run on Linux under Mono. But that isn't the case. In order to hook into the UO Client Razor does several modifcations directly to client memory which I do not think Linux/WINE would tolerate. The final nail in the coffin: Most (90%+) of the client manipulation code is done in a native C++ DLL using native windows APIs. Razor is not pure .Net, it is about 35000 lines of C# and about 5000 lines of C++. So, you will probably never be able to get Razor working on Linux "out of the box." It would probably require extensive internal reorganization to make it possible, if it is possible at all which I don't believe is the case. Where there is a will, there is a way.... but I am sad to say that there is almost no interest in getting Razor running on linux (99.9% of people don't care at all, and the other 0.1% would love it if it ran on Linux, but they put up with it on Windows) so it is unlikely I will ever put forth the time to make that happen. As it is now my time for UO is seriously limited (thus the reason why it has been several months since a release). __________________ Zippy, Razor Creator and RunUO Core Developer The RunUO Software Team "Intuition, like a flash of lightning, lasts only for a second. It generally comes when one is tormented by a difficult decipherment and when one reviews in his mind the fruitless experiments already tried. Suddenly the light breaks through and one finds after a few minutes what previous days of labor were unable to reveal." ~The Cryptonomicon

07-14-2007, 11:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
jezzza234 Forum Newbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Age: 29 Posts: 2	Ok fair enough, like I said I didn't know how you were hooking up to the UO client. Thats a shame I sort of lost interest in UO years ago, but always return every so often You will probably do the same, I don't know many people who completely quit. Is there any chance of releasing the source code of Razor and getting it maintained that way? Myself and others might be interested in helping to get Linux support, or just doing general maintenance.

07-16-2007, 07:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
Zippy Administrator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Baltimore, MD Age: 25 Posts: 4,868	I think you missed the part where not only do I not really care about Razor on Linux, but I don't have the time to do it either. __________________ Zippy, Razor Creator and RunUO Core Developer The RunUO Software Team "Intuition, like a flash of lightning, lasts only for a second. It generally comes when one is tormented by a difficult decipherment and when one reviews in his mind the fruitless experiments already tried. Suddenly the light breaks through and one finds after a few minutes what previous days of labor were unable to reveal." ~The Cryptonomicon

07-17-2007, 07:34 AM	#14 (permalink)
Leffe Lurker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4	I don't care about all that.

07-17-2007, 05:15 PM	#16 (permalink)
Travis-demise Forum Expert Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 25 Posts: 595	it be possible to make it all C? or C++? just an idea that's all save me from having to run virtualbox :P. __________________ Demise is like America, to many non English speaking people committing crimes, taking jobs because there own country sucks and they cant fix it to be as good as ours. :eek:

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