Config.cs

[KillerBeeZ]

This is just an idea I had a moment ago, figured I'd share.

RunUO is great, the way it works, the language it's written in, the base in which it starts out.

What would make it even better is a script where all the popular modifications can be set, like a Config.cs

Not everyone wants to emulate OSI, but using OSI as a base is perfect.

some things that would be included are:

Max characters per account, max houses per account, the entire server stats.cs, this list can go on almost forever.

All the little things people most commonly set either when just starting or upgrading their shard.

This file will not include the following:

new ores (a little too complex for a simple config.cs), new systems, custon races....

Things that are generally easy to modify can go in this config file.

need more info? just ask, I can write a book here.

How easy/hard would this be? would this require reworking the entire scripts directory?

If this is not too hard, then I for one would love to see this. Add as many little configuration options as you can think of and you will find that there will be a lot less posts here about the simple things.

[XxSP1DERxX]

I agree, although part of this is in AOS.cs, ServerList.cs, MapDefinitions.cs, and Notoriety.cs. So you would have to rewrite where they are. Also they would not be in their own categorical class, but rather one giant class dedicated to them. This is both bad and good, because they are all in one place and are easy to reference, yet they are not by their category (houses per account in the house script). Depends on how you look at it. Also some things which could go into it are -

Max Light Level in dungeons
Max Light Level in Towns
Bank Item Limit
Backpack Item Limit
IP's per Account
FastWalk (movement packet regulation) for players and/or staff or none
Words of Power for players and or staff (or none)
Regeants for players/staff (or none)
Maximum Resistance for players
Maximum Resistance for Staff
Server Name, IP
All of the configurations from AOS.cs (insurance, etc)

those are just some to name a few

[KillerBeeZ]

this is true, so perhaps a Config folder with all the config files in it, each in the correct class, as long as they are all in the same place, its still making it easier to find them all.

[awdball]

Just some ideas to shoot arround.

A single config class with all of these flags defined as staticc properties could be referenced everywhere with having to create instances. Should be fairly effective at this sort of thing...

Then again there are others that would probably like to see all the flags loaded from an XML document.
---------------------------------------------------------
awdball (old school c coder learning and luvin c#)

[XxSP1DERxX]

Although some poeple are turned off by configuring in code (they get scared). Or newbies attempt to configure the comment as apposed to the actual configuration variable. Also some are turned off by XML (they are scared of that). XML is better for newbies and people who don't want to bother the configuration file. If you use XML there are two approaches you can use -

Property to get/set the variable from/in the XML file
Load the property on initialize from the XML file and get that (no point to set it in code if it wont be changed in the XML file).

[Phantom]

Config values beyond a class to handle static variables doesn't really make sense.

Whats so hard about just editing a given class?

[XxSP1DERxX]

Like i said above, people are scared to change code. Can you count how many people could not configure ServerList.cs and either did it completely wrong, not at all and questioned wtf to do when there are instructions, or edited the comments and not the actual variable? Its limitless. I believe that a configuration file may resolve issues with only a hand-ful of people, but the majority of REALLY clueless poeple will remain clueless, just about a different file.

[Dian]

Originally Posted by KillerBeeZ

this is true, so perhaps a Config folder with all the config files in it, each in the correct class, as long as they are all in the same place, its still making it easier to find them all.

If you changed the folder Scripts/Misc to Scripts/Config you would have basicly exactly that.

[XxSP1DERxX]

Not exactly.. but slightly yes. Account configurations are in the account files, house configurations in their files, and the same with spells. So not entirely

[Phantom]

I think people want RunUO to be Sphere. I think I dislike that, I think I won't ever agree with people who cannot follow directions.

[KillerBeeZ]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I think people want RunUO to be Sphere. I think I dislike that, I think I won't ever agree with people who cannot follow directions.

I'm not talking about not following directions, I'm talking about making those directions easier, and you for one should see the value in that.

btw.

I don't know, like or care about sphere, I am talking about making runUO better, not trying to be anything like anyone else.

[joantinet]

This is not about making RunUO like sphere... that is totally impossible since Beta 1!

The point is to make RunUO accessibe to everyone. As many know a lot of people gets scared with the idea of changing code.

There is many people who will never be running a RunUO shard but like to be able to set a shard in the less amount of time as possible, create a champion and kill it with their super-dopped character and have his/her friends do so.

This Configurations.cs or however you want to call it could have the basic options such as Servername, AutoAcct. On/Off, ect. with //explanations for newbies and such. That would be really useful for those unexperienced users that want to play around and maybe become great scripters and members of the RunUO community in the future

Johnny

[XxSP1DERxX]

Would not prevent a newbie from editing the comment example of the setting or variable if it was in Config.cs as apposed to ServerList.cs. The point is, you can only accomidate newbies so much. Everytime you think you think have accomidated newbies, there will be someone even more newbier than the previous. Its like making it dummy proof, but you really cant.

[psz]

I still stand by my oppinion, which has been disagreed with by many people, DEVS included, that if you are too newbie to understand how to edit the correct line of a script, or too newbie to understand how to set up a router, you should *NOT* be setting up an Internet Server Software, whether it be a web server, FTP server, or UO server.

Learn HOW to use a computer FIRST (And I don't mean turning it on, and point'n'click), learn how to run a server SECOND.

This would remove 99% of all problems.

[KillerBeeZ]

Originally Posted by psz

I still stand by my oppinion, which has been disagreed with by many people, DEVS included, that if you are too newbie to understand how to edit the correct line of a script, or too newbie to understand how to set up a router, you should *NOT* be setting up an Internet Server Software, whether it be a web server, FTP server, or UO server.

Learn HOW to use a computer FIRST (And I don't mean turning it on, and point'n'click), learn how to run a server SECOND.

This would remove 99% of all problems.

I don't need to learn how to program in order to use windows, I don't need to know how many sectors are on my hard drive to store my data, I need not know about OC-12 or T1 to have a connection and use the internet, the same goes with other programs such as RunUO.

In the beginning this was a constant, you needed to be a geek to do anything with computers, but since the very 1st GUI came out, easing people into computers, this hasn't been the case. Programs are becoming more and more user friendly, and more and more people are getting into the web. The rule of business both offline and on, "if you don't adapt, you die" is true with RunUO as well as any other program.

Granted, RunUO is not going to die, but it still can be better and easier to use. The way computers work, noone will know everything about them, there is too much to learn, and you will never need to. Programs are written with the idea in mind that we know a bit about what we are doing, but not the details of every program we use, thus most programs have a help file, and documentation. We are not expected to know the source code of Linux in order to use it, it just helps. Same with any number of programs.

I for one learn as I do something. So actually looking at a config.cs file would help me to learn new things about RunUO in general, as it would everyone else.

By what your saying, one shouldn't run a server without knowing what a server is, well I agree.

I say still that a config file will help not only the newbies, but the vets as well, think about it, how many beta's have you gone through? how many times while upgrading have you forgotten to change something simple here and there? It takes me a day or 3 to get back to the settings I had it before an upgrade.

Also imagine the possibilities of custom scripts? More scripters will use this central config area to setup thier custom scripts as well, thus more bonus for the vets... less "help me" posts.

[psz]

Originally Posted by KillerBeeZ

I don't need to learn how to program in order to use windows

You DO need to know how to program to edit source code, correct? Code such as custom scripts...

, I don't need to know how many sectors are on my hard drive to store my data,

You DO need to know how the system stores files so you can find then, correct? Otherwise you'd never know what files or where to edit...

I need not know about OC-12 or T1 to have a connection and use the internet,

You DO need to know about how to configure said connection to get Server apps to run, correct? Otherwise you'd never get correct IPs, ports, protocols, etc...

the same goes with other programs such as RunUO.

Considering the above, yes.

We are not expected to know the source code of Linux in order to use it, it just helps. Same with any number of programs.

If you want to change default behaviour of linux, or what's compiled into the source, you do tend to need that knowledge to at least some level. Even if you're using the X-Windows Kernel config.

I for one learn as I do something. So actually looking at a config.cs file would help me to learn new things about RunUO in general, as it would everyone else.

How is that different than looking at the files currently in RunUO?

I say still that a config file will help not only the newbies, but the vets as well, think about it, how many beta's have you gone through? how many times while upgrading have you forgotten to change something simple here and there? It takes me a day or 3 to get back to the settings I had it before an upgrade.

It takes me less than an hour to upgrade from one beta to another (Or in the case of one set of betas I skipped a version AND revision before upgrading... Still took less than an hour). This has been the case since Beta 16.
Again, knowing what you're doing tends to help.

Also imagine the possibilities of custom scripts? More scripters will use this central config area to setup thier custom scripts as well, thus more bonus for the vets... less "help me" posts.

They tend to change so much, that a central file would be useless anyway. Most vets also don't have "help me" posts.

I never said I held a popular oppinion. I know it's not.
It's just a well informed (from experience with numerous projects) one.

[Phantom]

There is no reason for a configuration class. We have ServerList and AOS classes for a reason.

There is no sense programming wise to have more static variables then you need.

[fasternu]

time for my 2 cents, but i dont think KillerBeez was asking for more variables, but just locating all of the popular variables and settings to on central script, so you dont have to hunt thru the 5 or 6 different ones to get the settings you need for your basic setups. I for one as a shard owner think the idea would be good. Do i know where most of the settings are? yes but having them all in one script right there so i dont have to jump thru the others to find what i want would be great. ok the moment has passed.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by fasternu

time for my 2 cents, but i dont think KillerBeez was asking for more variables, but just locating all of the popular variables and settings to on central script, so you dont have to hunt thru the 5 or 6 different ones to get the settings you need for your basic setups. I for one as a shard owner think the idea would be good. Do i know where most of the settings are? yes but having them all in one script right there so i dont have to jump thru the others to find what i want would be great. ok the moment has passed.

You don't have to hunt for that now. It only makes sense to have the variables in the class your going to be using. Otherwise you will have to reference to the class that has them. Its just a nightmare if you do.

Programming does not require a config file, there is no reason for one, at least RunUO has no reason for one.

[jakar]

I generally side with KillerBeeZ on this one. But who says the values for these variables have to exist within a class? What is wrong with a configuration file? Something like:

Config.cfg file
[Factions]
"Enabled"="true"

Faction.cs file
static bool m_Enabled = ConfigSystem.GetValue( "Factions", "Enabled", false );

This is just a rough idea. The last param (false) is there just as a default value in case the entry doesn't exist in the config file. This is the general idea of what we did at the last company I worked for. You will lose a little bit of time at server start, but all in all I believe it to be an acceptable sacrifice.

[Trixie]

**In the beginning this was a constant, you needed to be a geek to do anything with computers.**


Oh my god, I am a geek? My first computer didn't even have a hard drive, my programs were all stored on cassette tapes! I remember how excited I was to get my first 20 meg HD, and when windows 3.1 came out? I thought i had died and gone to heaven.
*grins*

Anyway, it may make it easier for some, how shall we put it, computer illiterate people, to have everything in one script to make all the customizing easier. Yes, it would make it similar to what sphere does, but Sphere will never even come close to RunUO with possibilities, a monkey could script for Sphere. i am not Knocking them or flaming them, just pointing out the obvious.
Would it really be so bad to make life a little easier for "newbies" to have everything in one place? It is true computers make everything simple for people these days. People don't even bother to learn to spell anymore, word corrects all thier mistakes as they go.
But having said all that, I think it is a very sound idea.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by jakar

I generally side with KillerBeeZ on this one. But who says the values for these variables have to exist within a class? What is wrong with a configuration file? Something like:

Config.cfg file
[Factions]
"Enabled"="true"

Faction.cs file
static bool m_Enabled = ConfigSystem.GetValue( "Factions", "Enabled", false );

This is just a rough idea. The last param (false) is there just as a default value in case the entry doesn't exist in the config file. This is the general idea of what we did at the last company I worked for. You will lose a little bit of time at server start, but all in all I believe it to be an acceptable sacrifice.

That code makes no sense at all.

1) [Factions] that would not even compile
2) "Enabled"="true" this wouldn't either
3) static bool m_Enabled = ConfigSystem.GetValue( "Factions", "Enabled", false ); this has to be a static value. Since its not it doubtful it wouldn't compile.

[Dracarys]

Originally Posted by Phantom

That code makes no sense at all.

Yea, but it's a cfg in his example. Not that it should compile at all. I think it's meant to be read by scripts.

Other than that, I think it's rather useless. Most things can be configured easily enough. Most systems already have variables that allow you to switch it on/off. So why a cfg file? If someone wants to make a shard he should at least KNOW something about windows, the file system and maybe a little bit about c# or at least programming in general.

If you neglect this, you get Sphere. Every dumbass can make make a shard with Sphere without knowing anything. Sphere script reminds me of that Lego robot programming system... "now you drag the wheel here and tie the rope to the wheel. That's what we call a loop..."

[KillerBeeZ]

the main point I'm making has generally little to do with running a shard, or editing scripts. My main point is that if we make it easier for people to edit their shard, there will be many less questions to answer here on the forums.

One thing that does make a single location for configuration good is when upgrading.

I have a great many default RunUO scripts that were edited, and moving to 1.0 I will spend about a week searching for the tiny changes I made so long ago and forgotten only to change them again.

I move every default edited file to a new location to make it easier, but that still means going through each folder to disable the newer scripts, or to redo them.

It's a lot easier to do all this in one file, or even just one folder.

...

On a side note, I laugh at the people who say they will only edit their website in notepad, saying its the only way to get clean code. I laugh even harder when someone starts saying they write all their programs in binary, or hex or such, we have programming languages for a reason. As programs get more and more complex, so too do the languages. This is not mainly to make us lazier, it is to allow us to do more in the same alloted time frame.

Now tell me, how many programs do you know of that have configuration options? How many of them require you to sift through the code to find them? Not many that I've seen, a few yes but not many.

RunUO is a program as well, but it is not that user friendly, thus the large forum here that seem to be the only way to get help or advice with RunUO, there is not real help file, no configuration option menu, no way to get answers to questions without asking them here.

This is good that there is a place to get help, but wouldn't it be better if 80% of that help can be found in the help file that came with RunUO?

Wouldn't it be better if while surfing this forum, you didn't have to wade through all the questions you already answered 10 times this morning, and 5 times this afternoon?

This is what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about Nerfing or newbying RunUO, I am not talking about making it like Sphere or any other emu out there.I am talking about using the most of our time and resources, making the best of what we have, or better yet, making what we have.... the best.

One day sooner or later RunUO will NEED a help menu, configuration menu and all the normal things any self respecting program has.

It may not be needed yet, and in fact it may not even be a good idea yet, not until all the code is tried and true, until the devs are happy with what we have and there are no more big changes... then it will become necessary.

This is the whole idea here.

It is a fact of the Web, if its downloadable then Newbies will use it. Why hate newbies, why make it hard on them? They too are human, they shall learn eventually, Respect the newbies for we all started that way.

[Dracarys]

Originally Posted by KillerBeeZ

On a side note, I laugh at the people who say they will only edit their website in notepad, saying its the only way to get clean code.

I have been working as a webdesigner before I got my new job. I have used just about every program to make html pages. The best of them was Dreamweaver MX. And even Dreamweaver could mess up the code so bad it wans't even funny.

So, just on a side note, I've coded dozens of websites (not pages, i'm talking about sites) entirely with Notepad. (Well, EMacs, but it's basically the same only you have syntax highlighting if you code it and it's easier to work with it)


I now what you're talking about with the config menu. I just don't think it would be possible as there are hundreds if not thousands of values that would have to be put into that file. Not to mention you would have to rewrite most scripts.

If you ONLY want to have the current options that are spread across 100 .cs files in ONE .cs file, that can be easily done.