Re-write of the Quest system

[jakar]

I was looking forward to seeing RunUO with an integrated quest system, but was disappointed when I saw that all quest code wasn't located in the quest system. It would be nice to be able to drag and drop new quests into a shard, and not have to modify core scripts to get them to work.

[Dracarys]

Originally Posted by jakar

I was looking forward to seeing RunUO with an integrated quest system, but was disappointed when I saw that all quest code wasn't located in the quest system. It would be nice to be able to drag and drop new quests into a shard, and not have to modify core scripts to get them to work.

I don't see how you would have to modify scripts to get them to work?! Much less CORE scripts? Since they are... guess where... in the core.

[jakar]

I am not quite sure what you are saying. I am not saying that you need to modify something to get the distro quests to work. What I am saying is that the code for the distro quests is not confined to the Engines/Quests section, and I am not talking about the base of the quest system. I am referring to the individual quests. This means that if you want to go ahead and write a quest similar to one of the distro quests you must modify core/distro scripts. It would be nice to be able to write a quest and drop it in. I don't know, maybe the core team thought there would have to be too many hooks in place in order for a robust quest system, and that people would still want more.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by jakar

I was looking forward to seeing RunUO with an integrated quest system, but was disappointed when I saw that all quest code wasn't located in the quest system. It would be nice to be able to drag and drop new quests into a shard, and not have to modify core scripts to get them to work.

Better get started.

RunUO already wrote its own base quest system its not going to change.

It wouldn't be nice, no drag and drop system is good.

[jakar]

Better get started what?

And I know RunUO wrote its own, that is what I am talking about.

[Dracarys]

Originally Posted by jakar

This means that if you want to go ahead and write a quest similar to one of the distro quests you must modify core/distro scripts.

I really don't see how. You can make a new Quest without major changes to existing scripts.

Umm, correction, without ANY changes...

Besides, Phantom is right. Drag & Drop systems are useless, mostly.

[Dracarys]

Originally Posted by jakar

Better get started what?

Get started modifying whatever you want to modify... So you can get your own scripts.

But as i said, you don't have to modify ANYTHING to get new quests.

[jakar]

If you don't need to make ANY changes then it is drag and drop. What are some specifics that are useless about a drag and drop system? I think that is a pretty broad statement to make. I would agree that drag and drop systems can be difficult to design, and an impropperly designed system can be useless. What about making new items or weapons in RunUO? That is pretty much drag and drop while maintaining an incredible amount of flexibility with the item you are designing. Does this make RunUO useless (I don't think so)?

Besides, who ever wrote the quest system started doing what I am speaking of, they just didn't follow through on it. The OnKill method for the QuestObjective is a nice start. Now they need some more hooks for item use, so they can get quest specific code out of the Harvest system. With a properly designed system the Harvest system would not refer to specific quests, it would only refer to the base quest system at most.

[jakar]

Originally Posted by Dracarys

Get started modifying whatever you want to modify... So you can get your own scripts.

But as i said, you don't have to modify ANYTHING to get new quests.

That depends upon the new quest. If you were going to write a quest similar to the Collector or Witch Apprentice (the only two I looked at so far) you would have to make distro script changes. Look in the Harvest system and you will find code specifically relating to these two quests.

[Dracarys]

Originally Posted by jakar

If you don't need to make ANY changes then it is drag and drop. What are some specifics that are useless about a drag and drop system? I think that is a pretty broad statement to make. I would agree that drag and drop systems can be difficult to design, and an impropperly designed system can be useless. What about making new items or weapons in RunUO? That is pretty much drag and drop while maintaining an incredible amount of flexibility with the item you are designing. Does this make RunUO useless (I don't think so)?

The system is not drag&drop. You need to write your own quest and it MAY require changes, depending on how you write it. What's specifically useless about Drag/Drop? - You can't think of everything the user wants to implement. That's why runUO is great, while Sphere is not. You can modify EVERYTHING so it does what you want it to do. Sphere is Drag&Drop. You can modify what the creaters wanted you to be able to modify. Not more.

Originally Posted by jakar

Besides, who ever wrote the quest system started doing what I am speaking of, they just didn't follow through on it. The OnKill method for the QuestObjective is a nice start. Now they need some more hooks for item use, so they can get quest specific code out of the Harvest system. With a properly designed system the Harvest system would not refer to specific quests, it would only refer to the base quest system at most.

I think it works perfectly. The other way round you would have to modify BaseQuest to implement your harvesting quest. The way it is now, you want to plug a quest in the harvest system. Thuse you modify the harvest system. Any other way would be unlogical.

[Dracarys]

Originally Posted by jakar

That depends upon the new quest. If you were going to write a quest similar to the Collector or Witch Apprentice (the only two I looked at so far) you would have to make distro script changes. Look in the Harvest system and you will find code specifically relating to these two quests.

I don't need to look there as I know there MUST be code relevant for those quests. Read my previous post. It's only logical that way. Oh, and you can always create SkillUse Eventsinks and do it without any modifications.

[jakar]

Originally Posted by Dracarys

I don't need to look there as I know there MUST be code relevant for those quests. Read my previous post. It's only logical that way. Oh, and you can always create SkillUse Eventsinks and do it without any modifications.

I will try to expain this one more time, but after reading this post my hopes of you understanding are low. If you can't reread your post and realize why I feel this way then we will not come to an agreement.

Let me start by asking a question. When you are sent to kill the Imps, how does the quest know that you killed the Imps? Is there quest specific code on the Imp Mobile? Maybe quest specific code on the BaseCreature? While there is quest specific code in BaseCreature, the code in question is not quest specific. It simply talks to the QuestSystem, and not a specific quest. Something similar could be done for item use.

If you think there MUST be quest specific code there, then I would like to suggest a book to you. Try picking up "Design Patterns - Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software" (ISBN 0-201-63361-2). It may introduce you to some new ways of thinking. It can be a bit confusing, but then again I am not the fastest at picking up on different trains of thought, but worth the read.

By the way, why do you keep bringing up Sphere? Sphere is not a drag and drop system. It is further from a drag and drop system than RunUO is.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by jakar

I will try to expain this one more time, but after reading this post my hopes of you understanding are low. If you can't reread your post and realize why I feel this way then we will not come to an agreement.

Let me start by asking a question. When you are sent to kill the Imps, how does the quest know that you killed the Imps? Is there quest specific code on the Imp Mobile? Maybe quest specific code on the BaseCreature? While there is quest specific code in BaseCreature, the code in question is not quest specific. It simply talks to the QuestSystem, and not a specific quest. Something similar could be done for item use.

If you think there MUST be quest specific code there, then I would like to suggest a book to you. Try picking up "Design Patterns - Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software" (ISBN 0-201-63361-2). It may introduce you to some new ways of thinking. It can be a bit confusing, but then again I am not the fastest at picking up on different trains of thought, but worth the read.

By the way, why do you keep bringing up Sphere? Sphere is not a drag and drop system. It is further from a drag and drop system than RunUO is.

Its to late for the classes to change, they design as been put into effect.

[Dracarys]

Originally Posted by jakar

Let me start by asking a question. When you are sent to kill the Imps, how does the quest know that you killed the Imps? Is there quest specific code on the Imp Mobile? Maybe quest specific code on the BaseCreature? While there is quest specific code in BaseCreature, the code in question is not quest specific. It simply talks to the QuestSystem, and not a specific quest. Something similar could be done for item use.

I see what you mean. But it's still not exactly bad the way it is now. And a rewrite of the system is of course up to you. I think there are things that need to be implemented first before thinking about rewriting something that works as intended.

Originally Posted by jakar

If you think there MUST be quest specific code there, then I would like to suggest a book to you. Try picking up "Design Patterns - Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software" (ISBN 0-201-63361-2). It may introduce you to some new ways of thinking. It can be a bit confusing, but then again I am not the fastest at picking up on different trains of thought, but worth the read.

There must be quest related code because the system is written that way. And I read that book by the way. It's very general, imho.

Originally Posted by jakar

By the way, why do you keep bringing up Sphere? Sphere is not a drag and drop system. It is further from a drag and drop system than RunUO is.

How so?

[jakar]

Originally Posted by Dracarys

I see what you mean. But it's still not exactly bad the way it is now. And a rewrite of the system is of course up to you. I think there are things that need to be implemented first before thinking about rewriting something that works as intended.

I didn't say the quest system was bad, just not properly designed as a whole. I imagine that whoever put this in the core/distro knows this, but did it this way due to time constraints. This is the suggestion forum, so I posted a suggestion. I didn't post with the expectation that they would change it. It is a shame though, because most of the base quest system is written very well. It just needs a little more work on the integration. I am pressed for time, so to make things short, I agree with your statement.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by jakar

I didn't say the quest system was bad, just not properly designed as a whole. I imagine that whoever put this in the core/distro knows this, but did it this way due to time constraints. This is the suggestion forum, so I posted a suggestion. I didn't post with the expectation that they would change it. It is a shame though, because most of the base quest system is written very well. It just needs a little more work on the integration. I am pressed for time, so to make things short, I agree with your statement.

The custom quest system was never going to be supported, I knew this, alot of people knew this.

It was poorly designed most of the time it was even used.

OMG, All this talk about modifying disrto files is making me sick. It must take you guys hours to update your shards to the latest version. I absolutely hate modifying distro files.

[Dracarys]

Originally Posted by Phantom

The custom quest system was never going to be supported, I knew this, alot of people knew this.

It was poorly designed most of the time it was even used.

IS there a custom quest system? The BaseQuest system was, as far as i know, designed to implement the OSI quests. I don't see any code that is specifically written to allow custom quests. It's just a side effect.

[psz]

There was one by Fury previous to the 1.0 RC0 release.

He has stated he will be using the RunUO version instead.

The two are not directly compatible (Though, as with anything, quests made with the previous system can most likely be tweaked to work with the official one)

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Dracarys

IS there a custom quest system? The BaseQuest system was, as far as i know, designed to implement the OSI quests. I don't see any code that is specifically written to allow custom quests. It's just a side effect.

Each of the quests are "added" as they are based on BaseQuest.

[Dracarys]

Originally Posted by psz

The two are not directly compatible (Though, as with anything, quests made with the previous system can most likely be tweaked to work with the official one)

Yes.

I did that. All my old quests now work with the new system.

[dean968]

Originally Posted by Dracarys

Yes.

I did that. All my old quests now work with the new system.

how did you get around the playermoblies script with out having to wipe your players accounts?

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by dean968

how did you get around the playermoblies script with out having to wipe your players accounts?

What do you mean?

Just increase the version number and use the default code that was added and keep your code.

[dean968]

Originally Posted by Phantom

What do you mean?

Just increase the version number and use the default code that was added and keep your code.

ive tried that for the last 5 days im missing something even took the txt doc that came with it and tried it .. I downloaded windiff but i cant tell when you compare the 2 files something are in red some in yellow.. i have a friend you can do it but hes busy im going to keep trying untill i get it or someone post a working one

[Dracarys]

You can remove EVERY part of your existing playermobile.

For furys basequest system I added the code to my custom playermobile. Now i removed it again. What's the deal?

You need to learn more about serialization/deserialization.