To flowchart or not to flowchart?

[Memnoch]

Now i've had a few programing classes, 3 i think. In the first, we learned about flow charting, in the last it was touched upon. Its something i use, but i was wondering about other scripters. Those of you writing scripts from scratch (not those that are modifing 2 or 3 lines of code and calling it new) do you flowchart, or if you do do something, what is it?

I gotta say with the script i am getting ready to work on, i'm going to need a while just to flow chart it with the amount of things it will hopefuly do.

[Alari]

I would say it depends on the complexity of the script and the way you think. If you find that flowcharts help you, then use them. If you find they're more of a hinderance or that other methods of verifying your script logic work better, then avoid them.

[Nochte]

almost always, yes. the only exceptions would be the incredibly simple scripts that require no imagination.
it's a good practice to start young.

[Talrol]

I flow chart in a way that only I can understand, basically I just make a huge todo list while I have in my mind what I'm wanting to accomplish, then as each item on the todo list is done I scratch it off. If I'm working on an extremely complex program then yes I do a full graphical flow chart.

[Atomic]

I don't find it useful to do flowcharts, but thats a personal thing...

[Viago]

mostly when im creating a semi complex script or a rather just all together tedious one. i usually think and imagine difrent ways of doing it (not imagine like having lil elves do it for my but imagine in a sense of what if i did this and added that then look at another pice of code and yada yada yad so on, to see if it owuld work) ....as i pace around the room. or play poker or blackjack. most of the time i got the code pre scripted in my head. and then i go from there. only things i write down are things i know ill forget, or information befor i pass out and sleep........

[ssalter]

Been programming for 20+ years and never done a graphical flowchart. Some people find them useful though. If something has extremely complex logic, I'll use pseudo code to sketch out a logic diagram but nothing I've encountered in runuo has required even that. The main thing about runuo scripting is learning how all the classes relate and then learning basic c# coding. The docs are extremely minimal and unhelpful so that just increases the learning curve but there are plenty of examples in the stock script base.

[Tannis]

I'm very very new to scripting, never taken a class or anything. The other day I was working on something tough (for me at least) and I ended up making what turned out to be a flowchart, even though it didn't start out that way. I just couldn't the series of events in order in my mind. So, I would say for something that's tough for me, I think I would use one again. It wasn't a huge great one, it was just sort of a list on paper like Talrol said.

[Killamus]

Call me insane, I am Mr. improv. I do it as I think it, lol.

[Tannis]

I'm not good enough yet to do it as I think it. A lot of the time I don't know the right syntax for something, so while I try to "do as I think", I'll get stuck on one problem for 2 hours and totally forget the rest of what I was doing.

[Spudz777]

I do a strange combination of pseudo-code/flowchart, and it seems to work fine for me. However, no one else has ever been able to make heads or tails of my work until it's completed...

This is definitely a personal preference. I suggest you try it out and see how it works for you.

[TMSTKSBK]

I do a combo of flowchart and pseudo code. If something has fifty different branches (exaggeration) or so, I generally write out what each branch does before coding it...it saves me time later figuring out where I am -- which I can also blame poor commenting for (need to work on that...)

Anyway, I also pseudo code pieces of what I'm writing when I'm not at my computer and I have a minute -- this gives me a "warm up" for the actual coding. I think through what I'm programming, and the relationships what I'm doing will have in the program. Then the programming gets much easier, since I already know what I'm going to say.

</twocents>

[DontdroptheSOAD]

Well im gonna focus on c# this summer, I'm not fully sure what flow charting is. It sounds liike just planning what you are gonna do before you do it. But please elaborate.

[Nochte]

SOAD: I am working on a "practice" software (game) development project. When I have completed the flowcharting portion of it, I will send the whole package to you. I will also post the entire project on the boards if the developers allow it. It's not directly related to RunUO, or UO at all but it will be a great learning tool for everyone who is new or untrained to game development. Is that cool/anyone have any objections to that?

[DontdroptheSOAD]

kk

[Alari]

A flowchart is basically a way to map out logic paths. It can be used for programming, prerequisites for courses, economics, (scroll down) etc. (Look on Google Images for other examples. =)

At it's simplist (the way I do it) It's a basic list of events and what happens, at it's most complex it's basically a form you can fill out with code to complete a program. For this type, each type of logic path will have a different symbol, and it covers any and all conditions and events that occur.

Some programmers swear by them, others hate them. For some, it helps them plot out logic errors or gaps, but it's really optimal for someone who doesn't understand the inner workings of a program (or whatever the flowchart happens to represent) Thus why managers will ask you to flowchart (Yay English language! We can verb nouns) a program and give them the flowchart. I'm sure there are programs that will read an application's code and generate a flowchart from it, to make life easier on programmers with needy managers. :>


Merriam-Webster describes it best:

Main Entry: flow·chart
Pronunciation: -"chärt
Function: noun
: a diagram that shows step-by-step progression through a procedure or system especially using connecting lines and a set of conventional symbols

[Killamus]

I dunno, I'm weird like that. This guy is the main scripter for a server, took him 2 weeks to do a basic mobile!! I went outta my head... He said "well, ya know its gotta be like just right all all *Bla bla bla* and yeah, took me a week to flowchart how to get it to randomly drop an artifact..." While he said that, I was thinking, I could figure out how to add in a fourmula in 2 minutes! Normally takes me about 5 minutes to make a simple "arty dropper", geez, I added custom ores/leathers (not dat99's, my own) in 15... I mean, if its gonna take ya a week to do a flowchart, and 10 minutes to do the script, why do it?

[Nochte]

because in that week, you could discover a hole that will crash your server.

[Killamus]

How does an arty crash your server.......? Also, I had previous experence with this anywho :]

[DontdroptheSOAD]

It depends on the special abilities of the arty :P

But I just saw that the new book I got for c# uses flow charts to demonstrate *yay*.

[viront]

I'm in the same boat as you, I've taken a few classes in Java and C# and am stuck between using flowcharts, pseudocode, or just winging it. As you can see by the posts here and pretty much anywhere else you look it really is personal taste that and there isn't really any right way to do it. I like using flowcharts if I'm having alot of trouble grasping what the heck I'm trying to do (oh man Ihate threads) but for the most part I stick with psuodcode, its my a language only me and an ancient race of magical lemmings can read.
I tried making a text based game once and didn't plan out anything well, I added things as I thought of them and ended up with a buggy mess. I had to scrap it in the end.
The one thing I think helps the most is good documentation within the script, you k now using the // or */ The problem with runuo is that it has very little and is a real pain in the arse to get the hang of. I know there is some sort of hierarchy thingy for the Runuo scripts, I saw it somewhere once... I actually stumbled upon this thread looking for it.

[Courageous]

My own experience is that, occasionally, things become just complicated enough that one needs to jot down the model on paper, just to make sure that the concepts are right. Although if it gets that complicated, I often go out to a UML tool, or UML diagram in Visio. Every once in a while, a class/interaction/swim chart will really clarify things for you in a complex system. The more experience with basic problems you have, the less you'll need this for the things you are familiar with.

C//