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Crypt Password...

Crypt Password...

Ok, I have a player on my shard who has lost their password... How do I give it to them now that their password is encrypted...
 

stormwolff

Knight
There is probably a way but the point of encrypting them in the first place was so nobody can do what you want to do.

If you are a shard admin you can just change his password.

If you are somebody who got a password file and wants to crack it then I for one will not help you.
 

Dracarys

Wanderer
stormwolff said:
There is probably a way but the point of encrypting them in the first place was so nobody can do what you want to do.

If you are a shard admin you can just change his password.

If you are somebody who got a password file and wants to crack it then I for one will not help you.


There is no way to decrypt the passwords. Absolutely no way. They are not really encrypted, they are hashed through the Message Digest 5 function. The MD5 function is not reversible. Well, maybe it is once they build quantum computers but currently there is no way.
 

spooon

Wanderer
Dracarys said:
There is no way to decrypt the passwords. Absolutely no way. They are not really encrypted, they are hashed through the Message Digest 5 function. The MD5 function is not reversible. Well, maybe it is once they build quantum computers but currently there is no way.

No, the only invincible hash out there is the one you smoke before posting. Check http://www.rsasecurity.com for more info.

For all intents and puproses, tho, it's solid. No one's going to bust it to get their RunUO password :)
 

Dracarys

Wanderer
It's not my problem if you like/use/abuse drugs. If you want to destroy your life, please go ahead.

However, what do you know about MD5? Obviously nothing. I majored in cryptanalysis, so unlike you, I know a lot about cryptographic systems and message digests.

So if you know nothing about MD5, please read this http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1321.html and then tell me a possible way to break it. Just the way you would do it, please.

I said it will be possible with quantum computers since they can reverse a mathematical function.


"MD5 sums are used as a one-way hash of data. Due to the nature of the formula used, it is impossible to reverse it. To find out what the source data was, one would traditionally attempt every single possible input value until they found the solution."

Let's say we have a function f:{1,2,3,...,N} --> {1,2,3,...,N}, which is our MD5 function and we know that N is mathematically speaking sufficiently large. The only other thing which you know about f is that it is periodic, meaning that there exists a number m so that f(i) = f(i+m) is true for all i.

Now, if you have a classical computer at your disposal, you will have to evaluate f N-times to find m.

Using a quantum computer, we can evaluate "all values of f at the same time", by feeding a superposition of all inputs into the function evaluation. Of course there is no way to get all results from the quantum computer but in this case we only want the periodicity of the function, while all individual function values are irrelevant. And this we get from our quantum computer in a few milliseconds.

Unfortunately a quantum computer does not currently exist. So we have to suppose that reversing a MD5 function is mathematically impossible.

Now, mathematically this is true. It's not true in reality, though. As I said, the only way to cryptographically "break" md5 is by using bruteforce. Someone made a table that has 170,141,183,460,469,231,731,687,303,715,884,105,728 entries with their corresponding MD5 value. So if someone used a password like "apple", itt could be reversed since it's already in that table. The MD5 sum of the word "apple" is 1f3870be274f6c49b3e31a0c6728957f. Now i just capitalize the first letter and the Md5 is 9f6290f4436e5a2351f12e03b6433c3c.


Code:
MD5(apple) = 1f3870be274f6c49b3e31a0c6728957f
MD5(Apple) = 9f6290f4436e5a2351f12e03b6433c3c
MD5(ApPlE) = e4f117a26eac86876d199be7bd738709

Now any cryptographically secure application (Let's assume RunUO is heavily dependant on a secure crypto system to store the passwords) would not just Md5 a password since we have to assume the user will use a short password like his name, birthdate, name of the dog or whatever.

So we would just "salt" the user password. We could, for example, put a different word after every letter of the password.

Let's assume our user uses the password JohnDoe.

Code:
Md5(JohnDoe) = 9fd9f63e0d6487537569075da85a0c7f

Using a traditional PC it would take about one or two weeks to "decrypt" the password using bruteforce, assuming we stole the accounts file.

Now before we store the password we could "salt" it:

JAlphaoBravohCharlienDeltaDEccooFoxtrotteGamma.

Now the MD5 of this new password would be different:

Code:
Md5(JAlphaoBravohCharlienDeltaDEccooFoxtrotteGamma) = b009bff1c6ef7f205d8a7537abcbeada

We could make it even more difficult to break by hashing it twice:

Code:
Md5(Md5(JAlphaoBravohCharlienDeltaDEccooFoxtrotteGamma)) = dc2497e7fdf894baf2a287b0a4158069

Now you see that the hash is 32 Byte long and our salted password is 46 Byte. That means the encryption is now lossy. We actually lose data. This data can not be restored. Again, the only way would be bruteforce.

Now as I said, the MD5 has is 128 bit long. This means you have 340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,768,211,456 possible values. So even if you could calculate the hash of a trillion words per second it would still take 5395141535403007094 years to find the password. (Assuming you find it after 50% of the tries).


Now let's just assume you have a trillion machines that can calculate the hash of a trillion words per second it would still take you 5.395.141 and a half year.

Now if you wanted to make a lookup table for each word, it would take the time mentioned above. As for storing the lookup table: where are you going to store it?
Even if you could store one lookup table entry on one single electron (which is of course not possible) the storage device for 10^38 entries would weigh 10000 tons.

So please: face it. It is absolutely absolutely absolutely impossible to reverse a MD5 hash.
 

Dracarys

Wanderer
spooon said:
the only invincible hash out there is the one you smoke before posting.

I don't smoke any drugs, fyi. It does interfere with my thinking. And that's a thing I couldn't have.
 
Dracarys said:
I said it will be possible with quantum computers since they can reverse a mathematical function.
While quantum computing will allow us to reverse the MD5 algorithm, it will not be able to magically add all the data that has been throw away in calculating the hash. The best case scenario is that it will allow us to say what might have resulted in the hash, but without more information we cannot know if we have in fact discovered the original content.
 

Dracarys

Wanderer
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams said:
While quantum computing will allow us to reverse the MD5 algorithm, it will not be able to magically add all the data that has been throw away in calculating the hash. The best case scenario is that it will allow us to say what might have resulted in the hash, but without more information we cannot know if we have in fact discovered the original content.

As far as I understood it, quantum computers (at least the advanced ones) CAN restore the whole string. There is only one possible string that creates a hash. No matter how long the input, if you just change one byte of it, it will create a completely different hash.
 

Phantom

Knight
RunUO doesn't use salt mainly because.

If somebody can get your accounts file they can get the information on your salt :)

Although I had a god way to stop this.
 

Beholder

Wanderer
Dracarys said:
As far as I understood it, quantum computers (at least the advanced ones) CAN restore the whole string. There is only one possible string that creates a hash. No matter how long the input, if you just change one byte of it, it will create a completely different hash.

True, quantum computer really should be able to restore the whole input string. But first someone has to find an algorithm to solve this :)
 

Dracarys

Wanderer
Phantom said:
RunUO doesn't use salt mainly because.

If somebody can get your accounts file they can get the information on your salt :)

That's the whole point. This is true for every system that uses salt. I see you know how it works, so no need to explain. But let's say someone has the password 'foobar'. Salted with any random information unique to this account the password does no longer look like the original word and thus will not be detected by a bruteforce attack based on dictionaries. I think we can safely say, noone is going to try a math bruteforce on MD5 (see figures above, he wouldn't live long enough). So every bruteforce attack on a MD5 password is based on dictionaries. By double hashing a password salted with i.e. the username a dictionary attack will not work. Unless you re-code the dictionary completely. But the double-hashing should take care of that too.


Phantom said:
Although I had a god way to stop this.

Having a good firewall, having knowledge about networking and computers and having good crypto solves the problem too.
 

Phantom

Knight
I meant a way to prevent people from being able to figure out what your salt was.

Like I said in your other thread. Either way has its flaws, only way to break md5 is by "brute" force or knowing the password.

Anyhow :)
 

X.Amubsh.X

Traveler
Ok so i do have a question ... Or well more like something I could see somoene trying to do... What if the owner went into the scripts and got rid of the Encrypter thing? So that way it just showed your password... I am assuming that is possible is it not?... (I know it would be lots of work but could it be done is what i am asking?)
 

Tresdni

Squire
Either disable the encryption, or just change the player's password for them. Not a big deal haha.

As for the cryptology or hashiologist on a religious quantum rant, I say this.

 
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