Assult Weapon Ban

[Cmonkey123]

The 2nd Ammendment is fundamentally good, but there was no way to know what kind of advanced "arms" would be available today. New categorization would be needed for weapons. Its fairly simple:

1. Hunting
2. Personal Protection
3. Law Enforcement
4. Military (Assault)

Then modify the ammendment to specify that the arms are to include types 1 and 2 for private citizens.

but..... as simple as that is, it will never happen.

If only...

 

[SkyMonkey]

Are you on drugs? Without gun registration everyone could easily get any gun they wanted whenever they wanted. Gun control makes it more difficult for people who shouldn't have guns to get guns.

The government doesn't get THAT much money from registration anyways...

No im not on drugs.

Gun control is proven not to work.

...atleast not to work in keeping criminals from getting guns.

a LEGAL LAW abiding person goes into a gun shop and purchases a gun has to wait the proper time (a cooling off period it's called) and have the proper papers.

A criminal just goes and buys one 'off the street'. (and it isn't THAT hard to do so if you think it is then you need to pull your head out of your ass)

 

[malgrimace]

The average house value in that area is $318k; the average house value wouldn't be that high if there was as much crime as you speak of. I seriously doubt you've been to Birmingham, and if you have you're a dirty liar about the crimes you've seen. Of course there are bad areas in Birmingham, but nothing as bad as what you described.

You must be high mate. I used to visit Brum once a month to see my girlfriend - and I've been several other times to go to the NEC. Just cause YOUR area has houses at £1/3 mil doesn't mean that there're areas that aren't dilapidated and "rough". You're probably some rich kid who went to a private school and leaves the city limits to go back to his cosy home as soon as the clock strikes 5.

a lot of people wouldn't believe me if I told them that the riot police actually wait in the streets on a Friday/Saturday night adn that the armed officers are on standby just because they KNOW there's gonna be a mass brawl/riot/knifing, and the reason they don't beleive it is cause most people go home as soon as the shops close up and don't see such areas after dark.

 

[Cmonkey123]

No im not on drugs.

Gun control is proven not to work.

...atleast not to work in keeping criminals from getting guns.

a LEGAL LAW abiding person goes into a gun shop and purchases a gun has to wait the proper time (a cooling off period it's called) and have the proper papers.

How is the gun shop owner suppose to know you are a law abiding person? And who has proven it not to work?

A criminal just goes and buys one 'off the street'. (and it isn't THAT hard to do so if you think it is then you need to pull your head out of your ass)

You can buy a lot of things on the street... but it's still harder to get it there than in the gun store down the street.

You must be high mate. I used to visit Brum once a month to see my girlfriend - and I've been several other times to go to the NEC. Just cause YOUR area has houses at £1/3 mil doesn't mean that there're areas that aren't dilapidated and "rough". You're probably some rich kid who went to a private school and leaves the city limits to go back to his cosy home as soon as the clock strikes 5.

a lot of people wouldn't believe me if I told them that the riot police actually wait in the streets on a Friday/Saturday night adn that the armed officers are on standby just because they KNOW there's gonna be a mass brawl/riot/knifing, and the reason they don't beleive it is cause most people go home as soon as the shops close up and don't see such areas after dark.

I'm not even going to argue with you, I know what Birmingham is like.

 

[SkyMonkey]

The point I was trying to make CM is this:

only people that OBAY the regestry laws (aka law abiding citizens - for lack of a beter word) will bother to regester their guns (or buy them from a store in the first place).

Criminals on the other hand will buy their guns from 'the street' and no matter how many gun regestry (or banning) laws you have if you allow the sale of guns then it will be easy to aquire 'illegal' ones on the street. (they are usually stolen form people that aquired them legally).


The only way 'gun control' is effective is to ban guns COMPLEATLY (except for a good reason)....

...and I can't see that happening any time soon....

 

[malgrimace]

How is the gun shop owner suppose to know you are a law abiding person? And who has proven it not to work?

The law states a period of around a month if I remmeber correctly. If you were gonna shoot someone for pissing you off, a month is a sensible amount of time to make someone wait so they can change their mind.

You can buy a lot of things on the street... but it's still harder to get it there than in the gun store down the street.

Bullshit. You have no idea what you're talking about. As long as you know who to ask - you can buy almost anything you want cheeply and easily on the streets. I should know - I trade swords and sometimes you need to pass them on quickly if it turns out your trade source isn't as legitimate as you might believe.

I'm not even going to argue with you, I know what Birmingham is like.

Right - what ever you say *coughtossercough*

 

[Cmonkey123]

The law states a period of around a month if I remmeber correctly. If you were gonna shoot someone for pissing you off, a month is a sensible amount of time to make someone wait so they can change their mind.

I think it's a week, but I'm not sure... But you don't have any sources either.

Bullshit. You have no idea what you're talking about. As long as you know who to ask - you can buy almost anything you want cheeply and easily on the streets. I should know - I trade swords and sometimes you need to pass them on quickly if it turns out your trade source isn't as legitimate as you might believe.

No shit... But it's harder to figure out who those people are and were to find them than it is to go to your gun store and purchase a gun.

You're full of BS.

 

[malgrimace]

I think it's a week, but I'm not sure... But you don't have any sources either.

Wrong

No shit... But it's harder to figure out who those people are and were to find them than it is to go to your gun store and purchase a gun.

You're full of BS.

I really do beg to differ. Hang around in the right places and look for the guys dealing. If you find one, you've got a 40% chance of locating someone who can deal you a weapon. Just cause you're some snot nossed preppy who's in bed by 10 doesn't mean that there aren't people in the world who know about the underworld. You're one of the most stubborn pricks I've talked to in a long time. Just because you haven't done something doesn't mean it's impossible - and the fact that you probably have never attemped anything like this makes me wonder why I'm even bothering argueing with you about.

Firearms aren't sold commercially in britain anymore - so you HAVE to rely on contacts these days anyway. Did it EVER occur to you that the IRA has disbanded their weapons and that those weapons went onto the black market.

So nieve.

 

[Mifune]

malgrimace, Cmonkey, you guys are talking about two different Birminghams. There's a Birmingham, Alabama and a Birmingham, England.

 

[Cmonkey123]

Wrong

I don't see your sources...

I really do beg to differ. Hang around in the right places and look for the guys dealing. If you find one, you've got a 40% chance of locating someone who can deal you a weapon. Just cause you're some snot nossed preppy who's in bed by 10 doesn't mean that there aren't people in the world who know about the underworld. You're one of the most stubborn pricks I've talked to in a long time. Just because you haven't done something doesn't mean it's impossible - and the fact that you probably have never attemped anything like this makes me wonder why I'm even bothering argueing with you about.

Firearms aren't sold commercially in britain anymore - so you HAVE to rely on contacts these days anyway. Did it EVER occur to you that the IRA has disbanded their weapons and that those weapons went onto the black market.

So nieve.

So you think that just because you know who to talk to to get and sell your illegal stuff everyone knows? I think you're the one being nieve. I myself know many people who I can talk to to get illegal items, but I know that not everyone knows those people or where to even look for them.

There's no need for you to throw in those extra comments about me being some kind of prick, either.

malgrimace, Cmonkey, you guys are talking about two different Birminghams. There's a Birmingham, Alabama and a Birmingham, England.

I was talking about Birmingham, Michigan. I dunno what malgrimace was talking about though...

 

[deathbud]

re

u have been able to buy the same weapons for the last 10 years minus a few options. this is the only thing that has changed now.



September 13, 2004

OPEN LETTER TO FEDERALLY LICENSED FIREARMS IMPORTERS
AND REGISTERED IMPORTERS OF U.S. MUNITIONS IMPORT LIST
ARTICLES

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) is committed to keeping industry members informed of statutory and regulatory developments affecting them. In furtherance of this commitment, we have prepared this open letter, which contains information about recent changes that may affect your day-to-day operations and/or long range plans.

Sunset of Bans on Semiautomatic Assault Weapons and Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Devices

On September 13, 1994, Congress passed the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, Public Law 103-322. Title IX, Subtitle A, Section 110105 of this Act generally made it unlawful to manufacture, transfer, and possess semiautomatic assault weapons (SAWs) and to transfer and possess large capacity ammunition feeding devices (LCAFDs). The law also required importers and manufacturers to place certain markings on SAWs and LCAFDs, designating they were for export or law enforcement/government use. Significantly, the law provided that it would expire 10 years from the date of enactment. Accordingly, effective 12:01 a.m. on September 13, 2004, the provisions of the law will cease to apply. This open letter is to advise the import community of the effect of this on importations.

Importation of Semiautomatic Assault Weapons

There is no longer a Federal prohibition on the manufacture, transfer and possession of SAWs.


Nonsporting firearms are still prohibited from importation under 18 U.S.C. sections 922(l) and 925(d)(3). Because the vast majority of SAWs are nonsporting, they generally cannot be imported.


SAWs no longer have to be marked “restricted law enforcement/government use only†or “export only.â€


SAWs may be imported into a Customs Bonded Warehouse or Foreign Trade Zone because the sporting purposes test does not apply to these imports.


SAWs may be temporarily imported under the provisions of 27 CFR section 478.115(d) because firearms that are temporarily imported are not required to meet the sporting purposes test.
Importation of Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Devices

LCAFDs are no longer prohibited from importation. However, they are still subject to the provisions of the Arms Export Control Act. Therefore an approved Form 6 import permit is still required.


LCAFDs will no longer have to be marked “restricted law enforcement/government use only†or “export only†and importers no longer have to collect documentation that demonstrates imports are for government sale. However, any existing records still must be maintained for a period of 5 years. See 27 CFR section 478.40a. Moreover, importers are still required to maintain their acquisition records permanently and disposition records for 20 years.


If an importer has an approved Form 6 import permit for LCAFDs with a restriction stamp on it related to the ban, the importer may import LCAFDs using the permit and disregard the restriction stamp. However, importers may apply for a new permit if they prefer.
Please note:

The provisions of 18 U.S.C. section 922(r) and 27 CFR 478.39 regarding assembly of nonsporting shotguns and semiautomatic rifles from imported parts still apply.


All provisions of the National Firearms Act (NFA) relating to registration and transfer of machineguns, short barreled rifles, weapons made from rifles, short barreled shotguns, weapons made from shotguns, any other weapons as defined in 26 USC section 5845(e), silencers, and destructive devices still apply.


USAS-12 and Striker 12/Streetsweeper shotguns are still classified as destructive devices under ATF Rulings 94-1 and 94-2 and must be possessed and transferred in accordance with the NFA.
We recognize that you may have ATF correspondence and publications that contain obsolete information. For example, a July 30, 2002 open letter discussed the importation of pre-September 13, 1994 large capacity magazines. This section of the open letter no longer must be complied with. Similarly, the ATF Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide and the ATF Guidebook: Importation & Verification of Firearms, Ammunitions & Implements of War contain some information that now is incorrect. We will update these publications as soon as possible. Moreover, we will provide up-to-date information on our website: www.atf.gov.

Maintaining open lines of communication is vital to the successful future of ATF’s partnership with the import community. The Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch is available to answer your questions about the issues addressed in this letter. You may reach us by phone at 202-927-8320 or by fax at 202-927-2697.

 

[Mifune]

Like I could have seen that one coming. My point still stands though.

 

[malgrimace]

Jesus Cmonkey I'm British - I was talking abotu Birmingham in the United Kingdom.

It's like the Bronx in some places mate.

And the comments about me fencing illegal stuff is bullshit. My business is above board and legal - just some of the people who come to me aren't

And I do appologise abotu the personal insults, they were unneccessary.

 

[Cmonkey123]

Jesus Cmonkey I'm British - I was talking abotu Birmingham in the United Kingdom.

It's like the Bronx in some places mate.

And the comments about me fencing illegal stuff is bullshit. My business is above board and legal - just some of the people who come to me aren't

And I do appologise abotu the personal insults, they were unneccessary.

Oh, for some reason I thought you were talking about the Bermingham in Michigan. Sorry about that...

 

[Raynew43]

Putting a ban on assault weapons or any type of gun does no good. Look at those cities here in the U.S. and other countries as well with gun bans, they have high rate of crimes.
Now look at Switzerland, in all of the world they have the lowest crime rate. You want to know why? It's because every person who comes of age is issued a weapon as part of the militia.
Gun bans don't do anything. What we need are tougher laws against those who use any type of weapon in a violent crime.
Like someone else, I think there should be more education in gun safety.

 

[Cmonkey123]

Putting a ban on assault weapons or any type of gun does no good. Look at those cities here in the U.S. and other countries as well with gun bans, they have high rate of crimes.
Now look at Switzerland, in all of the world they have the lowest crime rate. You want to know why? It's because every person who comes of age is issued a weapon as part of the militia.
Gun bans don't do anything. What we need are tougher laws against those who use any type of weapon in a violent crime.
Like someone else, I think there should be more education in gun safety.

You're stupid... How can you directly relate high or low crime rates to whether or not there's a gun ban...?

 

[TheOutkastDev]

You're stupid... How can you directly relate high or low crime rates to whether or not there's a gun ban...?

A lot of it has to do with the culture. Canada has more guns per person than the U.S, yet the rate of violence crimes with those guns is a a mere fraction of what our's is. I don't think anyone has ever really figured out why that is.

 

[Raynew43]

You're stupid... How can you directly relate high or low crime rates to whether or not there's a gun ban...?

I remember reading one time where a small town somewhere here in the US put a ban on all weapons within the town limits. Shortly after that ban went into effect, the crime rate rose drastically. This was within the past 10 years.
As for the name calling, it isn't called for. It's a well known fact that where there is a gun ban, there is a high rate of crime compared to a town or city that has no gun bans. I do know what I'm talking about.

 

[Cmonkey123]

I remember reading one time where a small town somewhere here in the US put a ban on all weapons within the town limits. Shortly after that ban went into effect, the crime rate rose drastically. This was within the past 10 years.

Where did you hear this odd story? It sounds like BS to me, something you made up so you could support your position.

As for the name calling, it isn't called for. It's a well known fact that where there is a gun ban, there is a high rate of crime compared to a town or city that has no gun bans. I do know what I'm talking about.

You really don't know what you are talking about. In Great Britian there's nearly a total gun ban, and yet, the crime rate is much, much, much lower than in almost every other place in the world.

So you really can't directly relate a gun ban to the crime rate.

 

[Raynew43]

Actually it isn't total BS. I read about it in a hunting magazine. The deer population rose to a point where they were being seen in the center of town, ruining flower and vegetable gardens. It was so bad they started to allow bowhunting within the town limits.

As quoted by the Washington Times;

Since 1976, D.C. residents have lived under the nation's most restrictive gun laws: Police enforce a citywide handgun ban, and local statutes require residents to keep long guns disassembled, unloaded and locked up. The law even forbids target shooting. Those who envision the United States as a violent cowboy nation might take comfort in knowing that this regime offers more restrictions than the laws anywhere else in the United States, in Canada, or indeed, in any major European Union nation.
Even in a nation where many see gun ownership as a birthright, D.C.'s gun-control regime, in effect since 1976, aroused surprisingly little controversy until recently. Had the law worked, the relative lack of controversy wouldn't surprise anyone. But, instead, the law hasn't done anything to reduce violence. Last year, the District, never far out of the running, reclaimed the title of the U.S. murder capital among the 30 most populous cities.

Further down it goes on to this:

And D.C. residents need more protection: Crime has risen significantly since the gun ban went into effect. In the five years before Washington's ban in 1976, the murder rate fell from 37 to 27 per 100,000. In the five years after it went into effect, the murder rate rose back up to 35. In fact, the murder rate after 1976 has never fallen back to what it was in 1976. Robberies and overall violent crime changed just as dramatically. Robberies fell from 1,514 to 1,003 per 100,000 and then rose by over 63 percent, up to 1,635. These drops and subsequent increases were much larger than any changes in neighboring Maryland and Virginia. For example, the District's murder rate fell 3.5 to 3 times more than in the neighboring states and rose back 3.8 times more.

But even cities with far better police agencies have seen crime soar in the wake of handgun bans. Chicago, which has banned all handguns since 1982, has police computer systems that are the envy of the nation, a bevy of shiny new police facilities and a productive working relationship with community groups. Indeed, the city has achieved impressive reductions in property crime in recent years. But the gun ban didn't work at all when it came to reducing violence.
Chicago's murder rate fell from 27 to 22 per 100,000 in the five years before the law and then rose slightly to 23. The change is even more dramatic when compared to five neighboringIllinoiscounties: Chicago's murder rate fell from being 8.1 times greater than its neighbors in 1977 to 5.5 times in 1982, and then went way up to 12 times greater in 1987. While robbery data isn't available for the years immediately after the ban, since 1985 (the first year for which the FBI has data) robbery rates soared.

In other words, crime rates actually improved prior to these bans and then deteriorated after they took effect. Even though guns will leak into the District and Chicago from neighboring areas, at least some minor benefit still should have been observed if gun bans reduce crime. Instead, the opposite was the case. The gun bans appear to have disarmed only law-abiding citizens while leaving criminals free to prey on the populace.

There are numerous other sources I could come up with and all would be the same. I'd post the url to that but it might be construed as advertising.
Now who's stupid?