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EasyUO users: can you break this?
- Thread starter Joeku
- Start date
- Status
Kamron;720772 said:
I'm sorry? I didn't mean my post in any offensive way towards Joekus shard. I was just wondering if maybe he might be stressing over something that he likely doesn't need to, while a perfect anti macro system would be very nice, for alot of people spending all that time designing one would be like making a safe that no one could ever crack, and keeping a dirty magazine in there.
Then it looks pretty tidy to me, just now you know your going to get some smart arse punk kid who more than likely knows more about scripting than me, trying his very best to come up with something to get around it lol
I think the point he is trying to make though, is even though maybe none of 'his' players can break it... if it does gain popularity and use on other shards, then suddenly you will have many more people that 'might' be inclined to find the way around it... and once that one single person does... it will then get posted and used by everyone and breaking it for all shards that use it.
I didn't find it offensive, idk why Kamron did >_>
kitchen.moniz: the transparent backround
makes it really hard
to break
and so yea if you leave it transparent it should be really hard to break
but what happens if you don't respond or respond incorrectly?
Joe: if you respond incorrectly
it kicks you
you log back in it sends the menu again
respond incorrectly again and it bans you for x minutes
kitchen.moniz: oh alright
yea it'd be really hard to break, dont think i could
one thing to make it more secure
is when it says like Lizardman Statue
randomize it with capital letters
like
LizArDmAn StaTuE
Joe: ah?
that wont be hard at all!
kitchen.moniz: yea
Joe: hm
knowing that...
awesome, thanks bud
well
kitchen.moniz: NP
Joe: will randomizing colors do much?
kitchen.moniz: yes
if its that random
it'll be impossible to do
well
not impossible
but very hard
i dont think i could do it
i'd really just give up lol
Joe: lol
This isn't really classy, but I believe it works.
The background is random, char color is random, offsets are random, placement is random and what ever else is random.
I don't think it can be beaten by any type of image processing, but you can obviously always scan for packets... And yeah, it looks like shit:/
The background is random, char color is random, offsets are random, placement is random and what ever else is random.
I don't think it can be beaten by any type of image processing, but you can obviously always scan for packets... And yeah, it looks like shit:/
CEO
Sorceror
The one I've written has 2 boxes, the top box changing every second with the same set of chars that you enter sequentially into the 2nd box. The background, character positions, see-through area size/position, text color is constantly changing making it pretty tough to read via #pixcol. I've made improvements recently so that the Staff member can cancel the check before it completes (in the case of someone there but confused) and also made it easier to read for larger screen widths. I'll post the update shortly for those interested.
Here's 6 second sample:
So in this case there person just enters 'kjccr' (case doesn't matter) in the bottom box and hit okay. Easy enough to do if you are actually there.
BTW, I do totally agree with Ryan regarding EUO and freeshards. I think a shard admin should be able to have any type of rule(s) they want, if you don't like their rules then go play somewhere else, it's not like there's a shortage of freeshards. Shards that don't want EasyUO shouldn't have to go to extremes to enforce it and people using those shards should respect the shard's rules. It's pathetic that people ignore the 'good will' of others putting out real $$$ and time so they can play for FREE and then screw the shard over by afk farming and breaking the shard's rules.
There are many ways EUO could be modified to slow it down, put limits on resources a player can mine using it, even go as far as using public/private keys for 'approved' scripts. Cheffe has been willing to do this, but the mechanics and integration to RunUO isn't something easily decided on and he also wants to make sure it(the integration) just doesn't become a tool to ban users. Hell, we've even emailed EA about integration and what could be done to allow it to become 'legit' for the 1000s that do use it, but they just ignore us for some reason (after what seemed like a promising first response too).
EUO is the most widely used UO scripting tool because it can do so much, some would argue too much, but it still can only really do what the client can do, except without the tedious click click click.... AFK resource farming *is* an abuse of it, in my opinion, but I think no matter what the tool is someone will always find a way to abuse it. You shouldn't have to restrict the tool to prevent the abusers, but sadly that's probably really the only way.
Here's 6 second sample:
So in this case there person just enters 'kjccr' (case doesn't matter) in the bottom box and hit okay. Easy enough to do if you are actually there.
BTW, I do totally agree with Ryan regarding EUO and freeshards. I think a shard admin should be able to have any type of rule(s) they want, if you don't like their rules then go play somewhere else, it's not like there's a shortage of freeshards. Shards that don't want EasyUO shouldn't have to go to extremes to enforce it and people using those shards should respect the shard's rules. It's pathetic that people ignore the 'good will' of others putting out real $$$ and time so they can play for FREE and then screw the shard over by afk farming and breaking the shard's rules.
There are many ways EUO could be modified to slow it down, put limits on resources a player can mine using it, even go as far as using public/private keys for 'approved' scripts. Cheffe has been willing to do this, but the mechanics and integration to RunUO isn't something easily decided on and he also wants to make sure it(the integration) just doesn't become a tool to ban users. Hell, we've even emailed EA about integration and what could be done to allow it to become 'legit' for the 1000s that do use it, but they just ignore us for some reason (after what seemed like a promising first response too).
EUO is the most widely used UO scripting tool because it can do so much, some would argue too much, but it still can only really do what the client can do, except without the tedious click click click.... AFK resource farming *is* an abuse of it, in my opinion, but I think no matter what the tool is someone will always find a way to abuse it. You shouldn't have to restrict the tool to prevent the abusers, but sadly that's probably really the only way.
Actually I would think most would argue that point... not just some...
Also while yes it does only do what the client will allow... there are also so many things that it does do that the human running the client couldnt do themselves without the use of euo or any of the other 3rd party apps out there... what the really sad part is, is the fact that even people that are really good at the game are forced to resort to using these tools or end up with a black and white screen most of the time...
Does anyone else really remember trying to manually target a pk for spell and at the same time trying to gulp a pot... those days are so long gone my friends...
Sorry if it seems like Im knocking euo on this, but though it is good for some things... I cant help but feel the bad far outweighs any of the potential benefits and I just cant imagine any admin in his right mind that runs any kind of serious shard that would disagree...
just my 2/100
Also while yes it does only do what the client will allow... there are also so many things that it does do that the human running the client couldnt do themselves without the use of euo or any of the other 3rd party apps out there... what the really sad part is, is the fact that even people that are really good at the game are forced to resort to using these tools or end up with a black and white screen most of the time...
Does anyone else really remember trying to manually target a pk for spell and at the same time trying to gulp a pot... those days are so long gone my friends...
Sorry if it seems like Im knocking euo on this, but though it is good for some things... I cant help but feel the bad far outweighs any of the potential benefits and I just cant imagine any admin in his right mind that runs any kind of serious shard that would disagree...
just my 2/100
I agree with sicron. While this may help with afk macroing, it does not solve PVP macroing or other blatant abuses.
I would love to allow EUO on my shard for "certain" things, but of course that is not possible either at this point.
With the number of free shards out there, if implimentation is put in to prevent EUO successfully, I have a feeling players would go to other, exploitable shards.
I would love to allow EUO on my shard for "certain" things, but of course that is not possible either at this point.
With the number of free shards out there, if implimentation is put in to prevent EUO successfully, I have a feeling players would go to other, exploitable shards.
The real problem that comes with all of these afk macro checks, if it only kicks the person macroing and there are ways to macro logging back in and starting the whole thing over again. I have seen this done so many times that I decided the best way was to have staff search for afk farmers and deal with them accordingly.
I don't mind EasyUO, there are so many other ways and a few other programs to get unfair advantages that it just seems to be one more drop in a full barrel. The only real issue is the afk farming.
I don't mind EasyUO, there are so many other ways and a few other programs to get unfair advantages that it just seems to be one more drop in a full barrel. The only real issue is the afk farming.
HellRazor
Knight
Ah, yes...the ages old "cheating tool debate"!
Cheating tools have existed long before UO came around and will be around long after UO is gone. There isn't really any way to totally stop cheating just like there is no way to totally stop piracy. Some one, some where, will find a way to do it.
In UO's case, it would be good to examine the core reasons why people use tools like EUO. Sometimes its just that people are impatient, but also I think that a lot of times it has to do with the game systems or mechanics not being fun. The game shouldn't be easy, but it also shouldn't be monotonous and non-fun. Most people don't feel its fun to click endlessly on mountainsides to mine ore for months on end just to be able to get valorite ingots. You don't see many people use EUO to macro something like combat because combat involves more than mindless clicking for hours on end.
Not saying that I like cheat tools, I'm just saying that they will always be around and that game designers should examine the root causes as to why the cheat tools are popular in the first place.
Cheating tools have existed long before UO came around and will be around long after UO is gone. There isn't really any way to totally stop cheating just like there is no way to totally stop piracy. Some one, some where, will find a way to do it.
In UO's case, it would be good to examine the core reasons why people use tools like EUO. Sometimes its just that people are impatient, but also I think that a lot of times it has to do with the game systems or mechanics not being fun. The game shouldn't be easy, but it also shouldn't be monotonous and non-fun. Most people don't feel its fun to click endlessly on mountainsides to mine ore for months on end just to be able to get valorite ingots. You don't see many people use EUO to macro something like combat because combat involves more than mindless clicking for hours on end.
Not saying that I like cheat tools, I'm just saying that they will always be around and that game designers should examine the root causes as to why the cheat tools are popular in the first place.
HellRazor;720856 said:
Yes, there will always be cheating and cheat tools... but just like with piracy, if you take away the simple and widely used cheat tools, you will then only be left with the hardcore cheaters who must be much more saavy to get around the game mechanics.... the problem will still exist, but on a much smaller and manageable scale...
It would then also be easier for admins to quickly find those few and ban them...
As far as not many people using it for combat... you really must be joking... anyone that seriously pvp's has to use at least some sort of pot/pouch popping, healing/curing, casting/target/last target, etc. macro... as I stated before, its become a necessity of the game because chances are if you dont, your opponent will and you will have almost no chance of winning against what is in reality a much lesser skilled pvp'er...
That then also cheapens the game further to the point of just who has the most efficient macro... not exactly what I think Lord Brit had in mind when the game was created...
I do agree that it can be a usefull tool while being used attended for things like mining... but the unattended use for farming has killed many a shard... that in turn is slowly killing the freeshard community in general...
For example...
New shard starts up... within a few weeks it develops a decent player-base...
A handfull of players multi-account and afk farm for a few days and flood out the economy before it even has a chance to develop...
No further player interaction (aside from pvp) is required since everyone else has decided to fully automate everything, so now everyone is fully self sufficient for every item they could possibly need...
Now that pvp is the last thing left that involves multiple players... people start to get bored very quickly... crafters/merchants have already left the server since they are useless, dungeon crawling/pvm'ers leave soon after as they are constantly getting pwned by pvp'ers that are now targeting them as they themselves are bored from trying to outbest each others combat script...
Shard is now left with nobody and collapses...
Players now search out a new shard to begin again, but eventually after cycling through this x number of times, they eventually give up on the game all together... how many times should a player be expected to start over???
Admins feeling like they have failed and not wanting to be just a player themselves... drop out of the community and the community then loses out on the experience and help that admin could have had to offer...
Community slowly dies altogether...
Sounds pretty grim dont it... but its a fact and its happening more and more every day...
HellRazor
Knight
sicron;720903 said:
In my experience, for any utility that you take away there will be another to take its place. When UO Assist stopped support emulators, Razor was born. When development stopped on UOE, other tools popped up with the same functionality. Take away EasyUO, someone else will develop a new EasyUO.
If something CAN be exploited, people will find a way to exploit it. If it CAN be macro'd it WILL be macro'd.
UO's design has some fundamental flaws and/or issues that will always leave it open to some degree of being exploited.
Also, I think developers need to look past the utilities and ask themselves "Why do players use these utilities"?
Well, I was mainly referring to unattended macro'ing. But again, it goes back to system design. If a large number of players use a macro utility then maybe developers should think about why players do that, and consider implementing the same tools directly into the client.
Maybe not, but PVP in UO has ALWAYS been about the speed of mouse clicks and who has the most efficient character build. Whether you use a macro utility or not it has always been about that.
Getting rid of EasyUO will in no way solve those issues, economy issues have plagued even OSI since the very beginning. Macro utilities speed things up, but if players can farm, its because the system allows them to farm.
There are ways to combat some of that. Don't allow multiple accounts. Implement some anti-farming code. Monitor the players more closely. Change crafting systems to make crafting less dependent upon farming materials and more dependent on things that can't be easily macro'd (like completing in-game quests for recipes).
I'm not saying cheating is good. I'm saying that there is no way to get rid of it, so you need to look at the root causes of cheating - why the system allows it, and why players want to do it. You're not going to stop it without changing some of the system flaws that allow it to occur.
CEO
Sorceror
If you really think PvPers use EUO for their PVP macros you must not PvP because using EUO for real PvPing will get you killed, plain and simple. My son is one of the top PvPers on our shard, PvPers map Razor macros and in-game hotkeys to do that stuff, period. A non-PvPer running something like CEOMedic will keep them alive long enough to run away, but actually PVPing with EUO is a death wish. You're either doing offensive or defensive spells and a script frequently will interfere with what you are actually trying to do.sicron;720903 said:
I agree with you here... but if you take out the common existing tools, it will turn the tide on the cheaters by making them the ones that will have to keep up with finding ways around things, and help admins to focus on other areas instead of trying to constantly find ways to block cheat utilities...HellRazor;720904 said:
Yes other utilities are bound to pop up, but it will take time for them to be developed and adopted by those that would use them... and they would take quite some time to develop to be made as easily used as something like euo...
HellRazor;720904 said:
Once again... True... but why make it easy...
HellRazor;720904 said:
Mostly Id say they are used, because people have gotten extremely lazy and used to having the tools readily available...
Others mainly to cheat... the rest to have a fighting chance against the cheaters... falls into the category of 'everyone else does it'
HellRazor;720904 said:
Correct in a sense... yes its been about the speed of the clicks... but automating those clicks to a point that the player themselves would never be able to accomplish without a tool removes the level of skill needed to keep track of what needs to be clicked, and physically targeting and clicking those things... kind of what the purpose of the game is supposed to be about...
HellRazor;720904 said:
Again true... to an extent... but without something as easy as euo around it will clear out a majority of the problems that are caused and make it easier for admins to weed out those that continue to cheat using other utilities. The biggest problem with Euo is that it is has become too advanced of a tool for admins to fight... almost any measure they can develop to block Euo, someone will write a script to circumvent it... everyone then uses that script and the block becomes pointless...
I know eventually people will find other ways than using Euo, but it will take them much longer to develop something thats plug and play enough to be usefull to the masses, and it will take them much longer to write that utility than it would be to write another script for Euo...
I also agree that there are several ways to help fight some of the problems, but many of them just shouldnt have to be added... I also dont want to have to constantly monitor players and spy on their every move...
Again yes the problem will never fully go away... but why should the tools that cause the problems be considered acceptable? As others have said, the devs of the tools should design them with the ability to be blocked or restricted...
Well anyway Ive rambled on this topic enough for this morning... and I think Im pretty much preaching to the choir here for the most part anyway... and we seem to be pretty much in agreement on the core principles of the problem so really not much need to keep repeating ourselves...
CEO;720909 said:
Sorry if it seemed I was only hitting on Euo there... I honestly dont like pretty much any of the 3rd party tools being used... Razor included... as well as some of the in-game hot keys that were added to the client itself over the years.
Short of writing an all new client... I know nothing can be done about the ingame ones... but the things that the other tools use, allows way too much multitasking things that just remove too much of the skill for my taste...
I know that relying solely on a script to fight your battle will end in a dirtnap of your own, but they do alter the game to an extent that really should be unacceptable to those of us that remember the good old days... or maybe my problem is Im just living too much in the past... I dont know...
Murzin
Knight
if someone can make an awesome razor macro or euo script, they will typically win for a while till people find out the weaknesses of that players scripts...
i remember on napa 1 guy ran easyuo to duel while he watched. then someone figured out if they poisoned him and then paralyzed him before the bandage hit his cure pot wouldnt go off and it would be easy to kill him.
BUT the real question...
can easyuo decode a gump
i remember on napa 1 guy ran easyuo to duel while he watched. then someone figured out if they poisoned him and then paralyzed him before the bandage hit his cure pot wouldnt go off and it would be easy to kill him.
BUT the real question...
can easyuo decode a gump
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