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THE DEATH PENALTY -- Are you pro or against it?

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Sremmos

Guest
THE DEATH PENALTY -- Are you pro or against it?

I want to here your opinions before I give mine as I don't want to start a forum war... Yet...

If you agree/disagree with the death penalty please explain how this hypothetical criminal should be punished:

A man falls in love with a women only to find out that she has a fourteen year old saughter and is married. The man is outraged, but very intelligent. He decides to find the best way possible to punish the family. In his insanity he ingeniously decides that the most effective torture would be to kidnapp the family, tie the husband up and force him to whatch the man rape his wife and daughter. Then to torture the family and finally burning them alive and dumping the ashes in a trash can. In his insanity he irrationally decides to video tape his vile crime. Several months later he begins to feel the guilt that came from his monstrous deed and whatches the video, the video brings him to confess as he can no longer hold back his resentment for what he has done. He is found guilty and you are the jury. Argue his sentence and explain how it will be sufficient justice for that which he has done.

-There are no rich philosophers, well there was one but he beleived I was a Swiss bank-
 

Etalicus

Sorceror
:evil:
Im for the death penatly and before pro-choice people pop in im agaist them. People should face there own decisions live or die by you chooses.
:twisted:
 

ratfink

Sorceror
First off:

Too many found innocent people have been killed for crimes the didn't commit (ie one is too many). Taking aways an innocent person's freedom for a time is one thing however taking thier life is forever. The grounds behind the death penilty lie in the belief that the judicial system in infalible, as we have seen time and again that is not the case.

Second:

From a anti-death penalty perspective the man should serve the a considerable sentance for the crime. In killing a whole family the man should probably never see freedom.
 

gmsmithsword

Wanderer
why

Why let them live if thay have killed something so perfect as a famaly!
If a man kills one person then it would be ok for him to spend the rest of his life in jail, but if a man kills 2 pepole he should die.

In a way i am Pro-Death, its OK for me.
 
L

Lost User

Guest
Read all information about http:/www.deathpenaltyinfo.org
The real info begins here: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/topics.html

And honestly death penality supporters most times overplay by drawing enormous crimes, somebody killing all blonde womans of new york, killed the actor of sex and the city or so.
or etc. okay even overstated the overstaters. Normally the USA kills their people for far less, these tales normally don't happen.

For exmaple some statistics:
Persons Executed for Interracial Murders:
White Defendant/Black Victim - 12
Black Defendant/White Victim - 178

Now how does that feel?

I also like this list of these citiziens the USA killed.

Executed Despite Doubts About Guilt

There is no way to tell how many of the over 750 people executed since 1976 may also have been innocent. Courts do not generally entertain claims of innocence when the defendant is dead. Defense attorneys move on to other cases where clients' lives can still be saved. Some of those with strong claims include:

Roger Keith Coleman Virginia Conviction 1982 Executed 1992
Coleman was convicted of raping and murdering his sister-in-law in 1981, but both his trial and appeal were plagued by errors made by his attorneys. The U.S. Supreme Court refused to consider the merits of his petition because his state appeal had been filed one day late. Considerable evidence was developed after the trial to refute the state's evidence, and that evidence might well have produced a different result at a re-trial. Governor Wilder considered a commutation for Coleman, but allowed him to be executed when Coleman failed a lie detector test on the day of his execution.

Joseph O'Dell Virginia Conviction 1986 Executed 1997
New DNA blood evidence has thrown considerable doubt on the murder and rape conviction of O'Dell. In reviewing his case in 1991, three Supreme Court Justices, said they had doubts about O'Dell's guilt and whether he should have been allowed to represent himself. Without the blood evidence, there is little linking O'Dell to the crime. In September, 1996, the 4th Circuit of the U.S. Court of Appeals reinstated his death sentence and upheld his conviction. The U.S. Supreme Court refused to review O'Dell's claims of innocence and held that its decision regarding juries being told about the alternative sentence of life-without-parole was not retroactive to his case. O'Dell asked the state to conduct DNA tests on other pieces of evidence to demonstrate his innocence but was refused. He was executed on July 23rd.

David Spence Texas Conviction 1984 Executed 1997
Spence was charged with murdering three teenagers in 1982. He was allegedly hired by a convenience store owner to kill another girl, and killed these victims by mistake. The convenience store owner, Muneer Deeb, was originally convicted and sentenced to death, but then was acquitted at a re-trial. The police lieutenant who supervised the investigation of Spence, Marvin Horton, later concluded: "I do not think David Spence committed this crime." Ramon Salinas, the homicide detective who actually conducted the investigation, said: "My opinion is that David Spence was innocent. Nothing from the investigation ever led us to any evidence that he was involved." No physical evidence connected Spence to the crime. The case against Spence was pursued by a zealous narcotics cop who relied on testimony of prison inmates who were granted favors in return for testimony.

Leo Jones Florida Convicted 1981 Executed 1998
Jones was convicted of murdering a police officer in Jacksonville, Florida. Jones signed a confession after several hours of police interrogation, but he later claimed the confession was coerced. In the mid-1980s, the policeman who arrested Jones and the detective who took his confession were forced out of uniform for ethical violations. The policeman was later identified by a fellow officer as an "enforcer" who had used torture. Many witnesses came forward pointing to another suspect in the case.

Gary Graham Texas Convicted 1981 Executed 2000
On June 23, 2000, Gary Graham was executed in Texas, despite claims that he was innocent. Graham was 17 when he was charged with the 1981 robbery and shooting of Bobby Lambert outside a Houston supermarket. He was convicted primarily on the testimony of one witness, Bernadine Skillern, who said she saw the killer's face for a few seconds through her car windshield, from a distance of 30 -40 feet away. Two other witnesses, both who worked at the grocery store and said they got a good look at the assailant, said Graham was not the killer but were never interviewed by Graham's court appointed attorney, Ronald Mock, and were not called to testify at trial. Three of the jurors who voted to convict Graham signed affidavits saying they would have voted differently had all of the evidence been available.

--
Or since 1973, 107 people in 25 states have been released from death row with evidence of their innocence. Meaning 107 people have been centenced to death that were later proofen innocent. Okay these were not executed but exornated, but gives a hint about a error rate that is at work.


Does death penality alienate other crimes? Experience shows: No.

Capital Punishment and Deterrence: Examining the Effect of Executions on Murder in Texas. Authors John Sorenson, Robert Wrinkle, Victoria Brewer, and James Marquart examined executions in Texas between 1984 and 1997. They speculated that if a deterrent effect were to exist, it would be found in Texas because of the high number of death sentences and executions within the state. Using patterns in executions across the study period and the relatively steady rate of murders in Texas, the authors found no evidence of a deterrent effect. The study concluded that the number of executions was unrelated to murder rates in general, and that the number of executions was unrelated to felony rates. (45 Crime and Delinquency 481-93 (1999)).

Is it cheaper for the state to kill a murderer instead keeping him prisoned for life? : No, in fact it's more expensive.

# A study by Indiana's Criminal Law Study Commission found that the total costs of the death penalty exceed the complete costs of life without parole sentences by about 38%, assuming that 20% of death sentences are overturned and resentenced to life. (Indiana Criminal Law StudyCommission, January 10, 2002)

Again remember this numbers...
Persons Executed for Interracial Murders:
White Defendant/Black Victim - 12
Black Defendant/White Victim - 178
 

Clarke76

Wanderer
You know, I don't know where i stand. But I can say the deathpenalty is diffently wrong. But if someone molested and beat then killed my child. I would want them dead and wouldnt think twice about it.
 
S

Sremmos

Guest
KNOXX YOUR COOL

THANK YOU FOR BEING THE FIRST PERSON TO RESPOND WITH FACTS AND LOGIC, I HOPE MORE PEOPLE CAN BE LIKE KNOXX!!
 

Token

Wanderer
1. I am pro death pentaly all the way

2. If someone kills your father or mother you would just want them in prison for life? No! You would want them dead. Kill the people that kill simple as that.
 
L

Lost User

Guest
Eye for eye, tooth for tooth. It's primitive.

Stop about thinking what death penality should be in your country. Think about the way it actually is. Look at the numbers! (races, kills beside doubts, exornomortions etc.)
 
L

Lost User

Guest
In a democracy should not be everybody be valued equal?

For example the vote of some guy living in wyoming is valued 14 times as much as somebody living in virginia, is that the right thing? So if I live in virgina the votes of all my familiy, close freinds, etc. are valued less than a single guy from wyoming.
 

Ayrius

Wanderer
I'm pro death penalty! I wish that have this in my country!
Every murderers must go to hell kiss the devil's a****... :twisted: :twisted:

Like knox said (complementing):
Eye for eye, tooth for tooth
Hand for hand, foot for foot

:p
 

ratfink

Sorceror
Re: KNOXX YOUR COOL

Sremmos said:
THANK YOU FOR BEING THE FIRST PERSON TO RESPOND WITH FACTS AND LOGIC, I HOPE MORE PEOPLE CAN BE LIKE KNOXX!!

Ummmm... you didn't ask for facts. *lol* Unless I misread you asked us to answer a hypotetical situation.
 

ratfink

Sorceror
this.Person=Person.Leet; said:
pro-death penalty for killers
pro-life for babys

Abortions for all
*boos*

Abortions for None
*boos*

Abortions for some!
Little American flags for others!
*cheers*
 
M

Medjai

Guest
My opinion

The death penalty is necassary in many cases. I believe that someone who is sentenced to life in prison should be executed. This would open up space in the prisons.

If someone is going to be in prison for life, they might as well be put down. Its not even painful any more with lethal injection. What's wrong with ridding the world of murderers.

As with the hypothetical question, I believe the man should be executed, of course, he would be killed in the prison system any ways. I don't know if any of you realize what other prisoners do to people who rape children. It isn't a pretty site and most don't live through it. Why do you think child molesters are placed in protective custody, its so the other prisoners don't kill them.

Thanks for reading my opinion.
 

Kiwi

Knight
The question is, if someone killed your whole family, would you want them getting a quick, easy, painless way out of the harsh realities of life?
 
M

Medjai

Guest
That depends

I am not a selfish person, I would not want them on this earth because there is a chance they will get out and do it again. Especially here in america, parole is always available even when your sentenced and told that you can't get it. People still do seem to get out on parole, the longer they are in the prison the better chance they have of getting out and committing more crimes.

You make a very good point though.
 
L

Lost User

Guest
Medjai, as I read on your comments you obviously did not read the info link I posted.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/topics.html

Read it!

Especially to some comments Deathpenality by injection is painful! Read the scripts of some executions. Normally it takes around 15 minutes! can even be an hour or longer. Sometimes need two

For example:

18. March 10, 1992. Oklahoma. Robyn Lee Parks. Lethal Injection. Parks had a violent reaction to the drugs used in the lethal injection. Two minutes after the drugs were dispensed, the muscles in his jaw, neck, and abdomen began to react spasmodically for approximately 45 seconds. Parks continued to gasp and violently gag until death came, some eleven minutes after the drugs were first administered. Tulsa World reporter Wayne Greene wrote that the execution looked "painful and ugly," and "scary." "It was overwhelming, stunning, disturbing -- an intrusion into a moment so personal that reporters, taught for years that intrusion is their business, had trouble looking each other in the eyes after it was over."27

The prison space argument also doe not hold true:

# A study by Indiana's Criminal Law Study Commission found that the total costs of the death penalty exceed the complete costs of life without parole sentences by about 38%, assuming that 20% of death sentences are overturned and resentenced to life. (Indiana Criminal Law Study Commission, January 10, 2002)

Here an execution does cost more than keeping one for life sentence.

Some argue that the deterrence:from death penality make it a good thing it's not true:

Capital Punishment and Deterrence: Examining the Effect of Executions on Murder in Texas. Authors John Sorenson, Robert Wrinkle, Victoria Brewer, and James Marquart examined executions in Texas between 1984 and 1997. They speculated that if a deterrent effect were to exist, it would be found in Texas because of the high number of death sentences and executions within the state. Using patterns in executions across the study period and the relatively steady rate of murders in Texas, the authors found no evidence of a deterrent effect. The study concluded that the number of executions was unrelated to murder rates in general, and that the number of executions was unrelated to felony rates. (45 Crime and Delinquency 481-93 (1999)).

Lookthere are two reasons why we should punish criminals:
+ repetition, so he does not do it again.
+ deterrence, so others refrain from doing such a crime in future.

Vengeance; and satisfaction are not legimate reasons for punishment.
 
L

Lost User

Guest
Think about that parole agrument again. What you told us is in other words, better lets kill him fast before we could accidently pardon him later?
 
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