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You Decide 2004!
- Thread starter Maynza
- Start date
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twistedreality
Wanderer
i vote for binny. If you think about it he must be a powerful leader if he can get his own people in his country and some other people in other country's to kill themselves for what he thinks is right. That i think is what you call
sirens song
Wanderer
Bush pays my salary, and gives me lotsa raises. Im all for bush
psz
Administrator
Bush can change oil prices a number of ways. Some would hurt the economy in the long run (a legit reason NOT to), some wouldn't.
As for Bush paying a person and giving them raises, that's great. What about the 1.3 million people Bush unemployed (Over 2mil, but some jobs have come back)? Or that wonderful $600 tax break that put hundreds of thousands of people into a HIGHER tax bracket the next year, and made them pay 2-3 TIMES the amount in taxes they normally paid?
Remember, there's always a downside to every up side a politician spins. They do the things they do to beinifit themselves. When you see "$600 tax return!" you'd better think "Ok, how and where are they going to make that up?"
When you see you pay raise, you'd better check your insurance rates, or your new tax code. You might be VERY surprised.......
As for Bush paying a person and giving them raises, that's great. What about the 1.3 million people Bush unemployed (Over 2mil, but some jobs have come back)? Or that wonderful $600 tax break that put hundreds of thousands of people into a HIGHER tax bracket the next year, and made them pay 2-3 TIMES the amount in taxes they normally paid?
Remember, there's always a downside to every up side a politician spins. They do the things they do to beinifit themselves. When you see "$600 tax return!" you'd better think "Ok, how and where are they going to make that up?"
When you see you pay raise, you'd better check your insurance rates, or your new tax code. You might be VERY surprised.......
twistedreality
Wanderer
I'm sorry septor but i would love to leave. BUT I have a contract with the usn sooo in a short 301 days i will be happy to leave this place and go to Greece. Granted i will still be under a contract 
Once again, a thread of posts comprised mostly of imature fodder. There are a few people worth replying to.
I consider myself moderate, but usually tend to lean toward Republican candidates. However, I can't bring myself to vote for Bush this time around. This is not due to the issues psz sited. I don't believe Bush has much control when it comes to gas prices, and don't think they have gotten out of hand. They have just come more in check with the rest of the world.
My biggest issue with Bush is his desire to ammend the Constitution to prohibit gay marriage. Another example of Christianity trying to assert itself over our legal system, and impose its beliefs upon people who want nothing to do with it.
As far as the issue of the military seeing a decline in troops, I have not heard of any problems with this. Last I heard, the Army is planning on reducing its size. From what I have seen, some people have left due to the current world issues, but others have joined. Certain shops have issues due to the quality of people joining, or what they desire to do. If the troop numbers situation becomes too unstable, or a large decline happens, the military will issue another Stop Loss to prevent anyone from leaving. As far as dying overseas, I don't relish the idea, but do understand I volentarily joined to serve and do what is requested of me.
I consider myself moderate, but usually tend to lean toward Republican candidates. However, I can't bring myself to vote for Bush this time around. This is not due to the issues psz sited. I don't believe Bush has much control when it comes to gas prices, and don't think they have gotten out of hand. They have just come more in check with the rest of the world.
My biggest issue with Bush is his desire to ammend the Constitution to prohibit gay marriage. Another example of Christianity trying to assert itself over our legal system, and impose its beliefs upon people who want nothing to do with it.
As far as the issue of the military seeing a decline in troops, I have not heard of any problems with this. Last I heard, the Army is planning on reducing its size. From what I have seen, some people have left due to the current world issues, but others have joined. Certain shops have issues due to the quality of people joining, or what they desire to do. If the troop numbers situation becomes too unstable, or a large decline happens, the military will issue another Stop Loss to prevent anyone from leaving. As far as dying overseas, I don't relish the idea, but do understand I volentarily joined to serve and do what is requested of me.
Maynza
Formerly DontdroptheSOAD
Hehe jakar I share all of your views ^_^. I am originally from New Hampshire so maybe its a new englander thing. I am athiest and I think religion is bullshit but thats not why banning gay marriage bothers me, its more of the "all men are created equal" type thing. And living in the south now I am sickened by how much church gets into schools even though seperation between church and state is supposed to be enforced. My brother's school has to pray before lunch and its a public school. Religion needs to be banned from all governmental decisions. Live and let live needs to be enforced.
Hmm well this election will be close. I am voting for Bush, yes I am Republican, and yes he has made some stupid decision, but my god, KERRY? If the Democrats could have found anything better they would beat Bush, but Kerry? At least Bush picks a side and stays there. Kerry woul have done something like this
Osama is going to regret what he did! WAR!
1 day later- Well maybe we should let him go, we cant propve it
Another day - Lets start the bombs
Next Day - Hmm America is upset forget war
Pick your poison. I for one choose Bush!
- Edit -
Also about the war, yes Bush supported it, but Bush can't declare war, thats congress, and he cant realy help that gas prices are flieng up. Kerry wants to take military funding, which will prolong the war which on return, will keep prices high.
Osama is going to regret what he did! WAR!
1 day later- Well maybe we should let him go, we cant propve it
Another day - Lets start the bombs
Next Day - Hmm America is upset forget war
Pick your poison. I for one choose Bush!
- Edit -
Also about the war, yes Bush supported it, but Bush can't declare war, thats congress, and he cant realy help that gas prices are flieng up. Kerry wants to take military funding, which will prolong the war which on return, will keep prices high.
ZirrArkail
Wanderer
Well, the conclusion I have come to is as follows.
Neither of these two candidates are evil, stupid, incompetant or out to destroy America. I also believe that both candidates care a great deal about our country.
What I also think is that at least Bush could personally give a rat's ass about gay marriage. What that point boils down to is that he (or his campaign staff) believes that he would lose more votes by accepting it than he would be able to steal away from Kerry. This probably holds true with many issues on many campaigns.
I personally think the MOST important factor for deciding on who to vote for is not what party they represent, not what they promise to do or not to do and not even the issues of debate. It is the core values of your candidate that you should look at.
If you think Bush started this "war" to further a hidden agenda and not to protect the American people then don't vote for him. Make sure that is really what you believe in your heart of hearts though, not just what the media shoves down your throat.
If it is really THAT important to you have the President of the United States say "I believe in Gay Marriage! Men should be able to marry men" etc, etc, then by all means send your vote to Kerry.
I'm so sick of people being elected because of bullshit issues and lies it makes me sick. If there weren't so many goddamn stupid people in this country candidates wouldn't have to lie about issues or make compromises to get votes. How about that for a viewpoint.
It's not either of these candidates that poses a problem to this country. It is the hordes of stupid people that comprise 80% of American society. Anyone that would even think of seriously considering what P. Diddy or Ben Affleck or "Kennedy" or Natalie Portman thought about politics, my god people wake up.
Psz and jakar and I'm sure some others have serious thoughts and considerations about politics. Most however do not. They hear something on TV or the radio or from one of their favorite actors/actresses and take it as gospel truth. All of a sudden they now have an opinion on who the leader of the United States should be.
Democracy has some great points and purposes in society however it also has great flaws. One of them is not having any real requirements to be allowed to vote. If you are unable to answer simple questions about politics or government or even foriegn affairs, I don't think you should be allowed to vote.
I'll end this with one last rant. How pathetic is it to target uneducated or inexperienced or politically ignorant people in a campaign to try to harvest their votes? Am I the only one that thinks this is ridiculous? Think of how much better this country could be run if only we could have our leaders doing their jobs 100% of the time instead of constantly worrying about how many votes they would lose by performing certain actions.
Neither of these two candidates are evil, stupid, incompetant or out to destroy America. I also believe that both candidates care a great deal about our country.
What I also think is that at least Bush could personally give a rat's ass about gay marriage. What that point boils down to is that he (or his campaign staff) believes that he would lose more votes by accepting it than he would be able to steal away from Kerry. This probably holds true with many issues on many campaigns.
I personally think the MOST important factor for deciding on who to vote for is not what party they represent, not what they promise to do or not to do and not even the issues of debate. It is the core values of your candidate that you should look at.
If you think Bush started this "war" to further a hidden agenda and not to protect the American people then don't vote for him. Make sure that is really what you believe in your heart of hearts though, not just what the media shoves down your throat.
If it is really THAT important to you have the President of the United States say "I believe in Gay Marriage! Men should be able to marry men" etc, etc, then by all means send your vote to Kerry.
I'm so sick of people being elected because of bullshit issues and lies it makes me sick. If there weren't so many goddamn stupid people in this country candidates wouldn't have to lie about issues or make compromises to get votes. How about that for a viewpoint.
It's not either of these candidates that poses a problem to this country. It is the hordes of stupid people that comprise 80% of American society. Anyone that would even think of seriously considering what P. Diddy or Ben Affleck or "Kennedy" or Natalie Portman thought about politics, my god people wake up.
Psz and jakar and I'm sure some others have serious thoughts and considerations about politics. Most however do not. They hear something on TV or the radio or from one of their favorite actors/actresses and take it as gospel truth. All of a sudden they now have an opinion on who the leader of the United States should be.
Democracy has some great points and purposes in society however it also has great flaws. One of them is not having any real requirements to be allowed to vote. If you are unable to answer simple questions about politics or government or even foriegn affairs, I don't think you should be allowed to vote.
I'll end this with one last rant. How pathetic is it to target uneducated or inexperienced or politically ignorant people in a campaign to try to harvest their votes? Am I the only one that thinks this is ridiculous? Think of how much better this country could be run if only we could have our leaders doing their jobs 100% of the time instead of constantly worrying about how many votes they would lose by performing certain actions.
The thinking minority is more like 1% than 20%.
Canidates don't worry too much about the common mans vote anymore in my opinion. They worry about the special interests and corporate money. Getting the almighty dollar buys television ads in which they can defame their opponent at will, all the while claiming innocence.
Let's face facts. The majority of America is too busy watching the mudslinging to take the time to go to websites like FactsCheck.Org to see who's telling the truth and how little of the time they are doing it.
Both Bush and Kerry are big fat liars. They are both of questionable character and who would really want to vote for either of them? But what are we to do? Vote for Nader?
Think of this: If Nader had not run in 2000, Al Gore would have won. As much as I hate Bush, the thought of the last four years with Gore scares the hell out of me.
So what do we do? Vote for a war monger who can't tell Bin Laden from Hussien? Or the other guy? And that really is all Kerry represents. He is simply " The other guy"
What we really need in this country is a third party. A moderate third party, that will take the two extremes and force them together in the middle. I mean none of us is conservative or liberal on EVERY subject. We have different views on each issue. Why are we forced to vote for people who are so extreme in their views.
And why do we allow our represenatives in government to simply not represent us? Time after time, our government has shown they will vote in favor of the corporation over the common people. And then come election time, no one remembers.
Making the decision as to who deserves your vote shouldn't begin once the candidates start campaigning. We should be watching them at all times and remembering, above all remembering, when they vote against us. When they ignore us and do what's best for their own wallets rather than whats best for the country. These are the professinal politicains. And these are the true enemies of the state.
We, as a people, need to demand a "none of the above" selection on our ballots, so if enough say no to both, they would have to choose new candidates. Over and over until they find someone we feel we can trust.
It may take decades to find a non politician who would even run.
Canidates don't worry too much about the common mans vote anymore in my opinion. They worry about the special interests and corporate money. Getting the almighty dollar buys television ads in which they can defame their opponent at will, all the while claiming innocence.
Let's face facts. The majority of America is too busy watching the mudslinging to take the time to go to websites like FactsCheck.Org to see who's telling the truth and how little of the time they are doing it.
Both Bush and Kerry are big fat liars. They are both of questionable character and who would really want to vote for either of them? But what are we to do? Vote for Nader?
Think of this: If Nader had not run in 2000, Al Gore would have won. As much as I hate Bush, the thought of the last four years with Gore scares the hell out of me.
So what do we do? Vote for a war monger who can't tell Bin Laden from Hussien? Or the other guy? And that really is all Kerry represents. He is simply " The other guy"
What we really need in this country is a third party. A moderate third party, that will take the two extremes and force them together in the middle. I mean none of us is conservative or liberal on EVERY subject. We have different views on each issue. Why are we forced to vote for people who are so extreme in their views.
And why do we allow our represenatives in government to simply not represent us? Time after time, our government has shown they will vote in favor of the corporation over the common people. And then come election time, no one remembers.
Making the decision as to who deserves your vote shouldn't begin once the candidates start campaigning. We should be watching them at all times and remembering, above all remembering, when they vote against us. When they ignore us and do what's best for their own wallets rather than whats best for the country. These are the professinal politicains. And these are the true enemies of the state.
We, as a people, need to demand a "none of the above" selection on our ballots, so if enough say no to both, they would have to choose new candidates. Over and over until they find someone we feel we can trust.
It may take decades to find a non politician who would even run.
Just to clarify a little. I am not against Bush because he opposes gay marriage. I am against Bush because he want to ammend the Constitution to ban gay marriage. As far as I am concerned, this has no right being governed by the Constitution. I do support gay marriage, but I am fine leaving it to the states to decide whether they want to accept it or not.
As for separation of church and state. This sounds good, but unfortunately it is another case of what is good for you is not good for me. It was never intended to actually keep the two issue separate. Its purpose was to prevent the government from interfering with the church.
On the issue of a true moderate, rather than an extremist one way or the other. Not likely to see a candidate who isn't affiliated with the Republican or Democratic party any time soon. Yes it takes money, but it is also about who you know and what you will do for them. Clinton was probably the closest we have seen to filling this issue.
Yes, I agree our voting system leaves something to be desired. A parlimentary system is a good alternative, but comes with its own baggage. I have been a believer that people should have to pass a test every so many years (maybe four). The test should be free to take, be comprised of objective (as much as possible) questions dealing with current affairs, and be able to be retaken if failed. I wouldn't even be opposed to having the answers being freely available. The person would still need to read, learn and answer the questions, thus gaining some knowledge from them.
I also agree/believe that most people don't have serious thoughts about politics, and end up being persuaded by there favorite actor, etc. Hopefully a test would either educate them a bit, or prevent them from voting because they are too lazy.
As for separation of church and state. This sounds good, but unfortunately it is another case of what is good for you is not good for me. It was never intended to actually keep the two issue separate. Its purpose was to prevent the government from interfering with the church.
On the issue of a true moderate, rather than an extremist one way or the other. Not likely to see a candidate who isn't affiliated with the Republican or Democratic party any time soon. Yes it takes money, but it is also about who you know and what you will do for them. Clinton was probably the closest we have seen to filling this issue.
Yes, I agree our voting system leaves something to be desired. A parlimentary system is a good alternative, but comes with its own baggage. I have been a believer that people should have to pass a test every so many years (maybe four). The test should be free to take, be comprised of objective (as much as possible) questions dealing with current affairs, and be able to be retaken if failed. I wouldn't even be opposed to having the answers being freely available. The person would still need to read, learn and answer the questions, thus gaining some knowledge from them.
I also agree/believe that most people don't have serious thoughts about politics, and end up being persuaded by there favorite actor, etc. Hopefully a test would either educate them a bit, or prevent them from voting because they are too lazy.
Maynza
Formerly DontdroptheSOAD
Vidi said:
Im sorry but you are a moron.
The Bin Laden family have disowned Osama because they do not in anyway approve of his actions the Bin Laden Family are extremely rich if Osama was still part of their family he wouldnt be dieing of cancer or whatever it is and living in caves check your facts you ignorant dink.
Considered any other races?
Are most of you as current and concerned about your Senate and House Reps? They have more say and power to do things and prevent the President from certain things( like not giving money out for instance). They can override the President if it needs to happen. The President is only PART of the whole. Congress has to agree to it for it to happen. THEY control the money and can make emergency approps as needed.
The race for the Presidnt is nice but the better light is placed upon your reps in the place that can make things really change.
And I am an American citizen whose family has been for many generations(almost since the beginning of the US) and I voted in the last 5 elections of presidents. I do keep up and am not thrilled with any choice put forth by the political parties. So those who have bashed those not of American citizenship for their views, do not bother with any of that here. I AM an American and I DO vote.
Are most of you as current and concerned about your Senate and House Reps? They have more say and power to do things and prevent the President from certain things( like not giving money out for instance). They can override the President if it needs to happen. The President is only PART of the whole. Congress has to agree to it for it to happen. THEY control the money and can make emergency approps as needed.
The race for the Presidnt is nice but the better light is placed upon your reps in the place that can make things really change.
And I am an American citizen whose family has been for many generations(almost since the beginning of the US) and I voted in the last 5 elections of presidents. I do keep up and am not thrilled with any choice put forth by the political parties. So those who have bashed those not of American citizenship for their views, do not bother with any of that here. I AM an American and I DO vote.
TheOutkastDev
Knight
Negaduck said:
EXACTLY! The problems lie in our legistation. 98.2% of the incumbents in the last House of Rep election were re-elected.
Wonder why nothing gets accomplished anymore? It isn't Bush or Kerry.
A
aeugis
Guest
I think Kerry has lied about more things than bush, so I'd pick Bush. I dont like the way Green Party works =/
That's exactly right, they allow their idea's, because it's not going to hurt them, in some way. The ones making 6 figures wouldn't have to worry about paying higher taxes as opposed to ones making much less. So no, it's not just in our legislation.
And, of course it's not Kerry... he's not the president is he?
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