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Athiests will enjoy this
- Thread starter Maynza
- Start date
TheOutkastDev
Knight
We know that material substances exist because a cause brings them into existence. If a material substance were to come to existence without causality, it would supersede logic, and imply a power that is not bound by the fundamental rules of nature.
With that said understood, it would be impossible to go backward on the chain of causality and have a rational explanation for the existence of the first material substance. Thus, we can logically conclude there exists at the beginning of the entire order of the universe, a material substance which is not bound by logic, and exists outside the realm of rational thought. This is God.
You cannot rationalize God's existence because he exists beyond the realm of any form of logical thought. You can sit here and try to prove God doesn't exist all day long, but it won't matter. The people who truly believe in him know that Faith is not a matter of mind, but a matter of Heart.
You're wasting your time, and creating a lot of unncessary hostility.
With that said understood, it would be impossible to go backward on the chain of causality and have a rational explanation for the existence of the first material substance. Thus, we can logically conclude there exists at the beginning of the entire order of the universe, a material substance which is not bound by logic, and exists outside the realm of rational thought. This is God.
You cannot rationalize God's existence because he exists beyond the realm of any form of logical thought. You can sit here and try to prove God doesn't exist all day long, but it won't matter. The people who truly believe in him know that Faith is not a matter of mind, but a matter of Heart.
You're wasting your time, and creating a lot of unncessary hostility.
TheOutkastDev said:
Extremely well stated.
to whom is it directed?
I, too, ask the question...
If the big bang theory is the beginning of what we know is to be the Universe, then by the very laws that regulate nature, specifically Newtonian Laws, and of those, specifically, that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, then what "created" the initial matter which compressed, due to gravity, and then resulted in the "explosion" thus creating our universe and all materials and life thereof?
Courageous
Wanderer
We know that material substances exist because a cause brings them into existence.
Neither you nor I "know" any such thing. There are any number of things, observable in the universe, without explainable causality. If you wish to ascribe to these things a mythological creator, this is your prerogative, but as you say, this is entirely a matter of faith.
There are no valid arguments of reason leading to a creator. Worse, most that attempt to (and perhaps come arguably close to) being such an argument, say nothing about what sort of creator this might be, say even less about how one ought to behave.
C//
Neither you nor I "know" any such thing. There are any number of things, observable in the universe, without explainable causality. If you wish to ascribe to these things a mythological creator, this is your prerogative, but as you say, this is entirely a matter of faith.
There are no valid arguments of reason leading to a creator. Worse, most that attempt to (and perhaps come arguably close to) being such an argument, say nothing about what sort of creator this might be, say even less about how one ought to behave.
C//
TheOutkastDev
Knight
Courageous said:
Explainable causality is merely limited to the scope of human knowledge. It does not change the fact that there is a causality that exists for said observation.
To say we do not know that causality drives the existence of material substance and events would be to completely deny the entire theory itself. Science has proven through its various fields of study that causality is the driving mechanism for our world. It would be illogical to dismiss the entire theory simply because there exists material essence whose cause we do not know.
A black hole cannot exist without a star collapsing, the sun cannot form without the collection of Hydrogen and Helium. These elements cannot exist without the collection of a single election revolving around a nucleus of a proton and electron.
Even if you were to say the universe came into existence out of spontaneity would still indicate a system of causality. The notion of spontaneity would have to exist in order to explain how the the universe spontaneously came into being.
o0_Sithid_0o
Knight
Personally, Ive never tried to discredit the existance of a God/Higher power. There has to be one. What im not happy with is puting a finger on any one god and or saying any religion is wrong. In the end theres one "god", one higher power. You all worship the same dude, idc what you call him.