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If you had a rocket-launcher...

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Kamron

Knight
I seriously don't want to start a fight. But personally, I have good reasons for why I don't like Mr Bush. I actually shouldn't wish death upon him, but I really don't want him in office.

Outkast, you are right, most poeple don't have legitmate reasons for hating bush. But two points on that.. intelligent people do have logical reasons. And secondly, bush has misled the republicans into believing misguided reasons for why he went in there.

We go in there to get WMD out. Ooops none there.. well umm.. he should be taken out anyways.

Thats a poor excuse of a defense, no matter how right he may be in hindsight. And also, hes wrong because it has caused more trouble than it was worth already (would know, has friends who are coming back from Iraq).
 

Phantom

Knight
Well, i don't want to start a political discussion but I don't think there was a legitimate reason to attack two countries without declaring war.

We have declared war, and any country that supports any terrorist.

And pulling it all off as if it was a "war against terror". I'm not denying what happened on 9/11/01

Good becuse it happen, and you should be thankful we got rid of a ruthless dictator that will never be a problem again. Who will never be able to attack you with his chemical weapons he sent to another country long before we talked about going into Iraq. Or was at least paying to built. We can't help it if he was a fucking retard and paying people to build weapons and they were doing shit. Oh btw what do you think is a Weapon of Mass descruction. I think somebody that is willing to die, and blow up peopl is one. Iraq has a few hundred of those right now, evidence of that is oh right the people comming back in a body bag. Show some fucking respect.

But as far as I remember, Iraq had nothing to do with this.

What do you call his followers teaming up with al cadi now? We entered IRaq because we knew it was possible. You wanted us to just sit around like we have done for that last 15 years?

I'm also not blaming Bush, I'm blaming the whole government of the US.

Doesn't sound like it, are you even american? You got alot to say, if you are american GO VOTE, if you can't vote because your not american DON"T FUCKING TALK SHIT ABOUT BUSH KTHNX

one thing I cannot stand is people who:

Don't Vote and talk shit about Bush
Who can't vote because they are not american, and talk shit about bush.

We got attacked. Bush reacted.

We have been attacked by the same group at least 10 times over the last 15 years. The twin towers got attacked around 92 and we do nothing. We had issues in other counteries on our offical enbsy ( spell check that fucker ) and we did nothing.

We were called a paper tiger.

Well sorry this paper tiger grew the fuck up. We are losing OUR MEN to protect your lazy ass.

I am sorry, I am glade we went into Iraq. We have helped them become free, WE wll be handing it over to their leaders in June. We will continue to help them protect themselfs.

Tell your leaders, in any country YOU WANT TO BE PROTECTED. GO AFTER ANYONE WHO THREATENS YOU.

Jordon is starting to do this, starting to fight back.

Btw

FUCK OFF
 

Kamron

Knight
When phantom gets mad, his spelling degrades :\ Its okay phantom.

Also, lets have a little quiz. What does Al Qaeda mean in english? Searching for the answer is not permitted. :)
 

Phantom

Knight
XxSP1DERxX said:
When phantom gets mad, his spelling degrades :\ Its okay phantom.

Also, lets have a little quiz. What does Al Qaeda mean in english? Searching for the answer is not permitted. :)

Translation:

Some fucking whackos
 
This is stupid

1. Not all American citizens can vote, ie. convicted felons ,those ruled incompetent, and any other reasons a judge can think of if you are perceived as a threat.

2. I served in this mighty military and I don't wish to hear anything about whats right and wrong about war until someone here has dealt with the politics of the military.

3. Because a person doesn't vote does not give another a right to trample their opinions, I won't vote till I find a represenative that has half a brain and I haven't seen 1 yet.

4. We are the reason Al Quaida attacked us because we as Americans stick our noses where it doesn't belong in foreign affairs.

5. Not only did we train and outfit Al Quaida over 10 years ago we helped both Castro and Saddam come to power.

6. The threat of terrorism has been present for over 20 years and no this isn't the first time we have been hit on home soil, and the vast majority of our terrorist hits here in the U.S. have been done by American citizens.

7. What does it prove to go after an entire nation when its a group within that nation that did the wrong doing and not the entire nation. (Sounds kinda like strong arm military tactics can someone say Gestapo)

8. It was our own lax security measures that allowed the world trade center incident. If the government had been doing its job in the first place it wouldn't have been an issue now.

9. What right does one nation have to govern the leader of another nation, that would be like us saying "Hey so and so were going to search you for stuff we can't prove you have in the first place and if you don't like it boo hoo" come on as an American I have never liked Saddam or what hes done but he has never made an attack directed at us unprovoked (remember Desert Storm, he didn't attack us till we stuck our noses in a conflict between Iraq and Kuwait)

10. This whole thing is because of oil, lets do an easy math problem G. Bush #1 rich in oil decides to get involved with a war concerning what else oil, then 10 years later his son who also is in oil decides its time to bring Americans back to the same country his daddy went after... who else see's dollar signs?

Listen I am a patriot but I also have half a damn brain. I don't believe in any of the conflicts or issues with foreign entities because we as a nation can't get our shit together and help our own so what gives us any right to be playing around with anyone elses government. Bush as a man is trying to paint himself a hero when all he's doing is getting our young men and woman killed while he sits at home. Whether or not its right I don't care but these are my opinions.
 

bizbol

Wanderer
Wanderingchi198, I could not agree more with you. You talk sense. If more people like you would wake up and realize that the US might be their own problem, things would probably change. Alas, people who have no knowledge of History or very little (real History, not propaganda) think that terrorists kill themselves for no reason at all. Don't get me wrong; I condone their acts of savagery. Killing other people for a cause is never justified. Gandhi showed that there are other ways of achieving what we want. However, if people are willing to die for a cause, hunger, poverty and so forth, don't you think that their reason is good enough? They are willing to die for it!

The story of hatred between the Western and the Eastern worlds is old, and dates back well before the Crusades. At that time, the Muslim were a very sophisticated people, having learned from the Chinese as well as having read Greek philosophers' writings and developing their very own knowledge. Heck, if today we wash ourselves and know basic hygiene, we can thank the Arabs for it. My point is that the Arabs, since the Crusades, which they perceived as tremendously barbaric acts, have grown to despise the Western world for what it represent, and we have learned to despise them for the same reason.

One needs to think before jumping to conclusions. Those who hate think very rarely. That goes for both sides.
 

Dr.

Wanderer
Wow, i started a flame war, and i ment George Bush.

Who ever thinks he should be in power is a right dumbass, he's only there so his "party" can play soldiers and get oil

And i started a political discussion! w00t!

You guys should really get out more too..
 

sidsid

Sorceror
Gandhi was killed by his own people because he was a fool and believed that people had sense. He wa killed by a Hindu because they believed he had betrayed his own people by supporting the partitioning of India, rather than risk a war between Hindus and Muslims.

How can you define what keeping our nose out of foreign affairs is? In order to stay out of affairs and not try to have a say in other countries politics, we would be required to cut off all trade and all travel between other countries. Or would it be suggested that we allow trade with them and enrich these countries (not the countries but the dictatorships of them), but we dont enforce any type of civil welfare in the countries. In 2001 we had a net import balance of $5,820 million from Iraq, primarily from oil. In fact, in October after 911, we had the highest monthly trade balance at $717 million. Many other industrialized countries also have a significant balance of trade with them. With their substandard production values and costs, and worker policies this translates into massive riches for the leadership of those oil wells, which being state owned means the country's leadership (Hussein). Now, why should not the countries that provide the most monetary benefit for countries such as this (Iraq) be allowed to dictate how you treat your citizens. Our trade is an investment and we want to protect our investment by keeping a reign on how these people are treated. We prefer not to see A MILLION people killed over a futile 20 year campaign against Iran. We prefer not to allow a man who has and will continue to abuse his power and his citizens to remain in power. We left him alone for years because we had a worse situation with Iran. But now (at that point in time) he is the number one villian with a real face (vs. Osama - who the US would want more, but have a much more difficult time locating)

What about WW2? Was it justifiable for the US to retaliate against Japan for the attack on Pearl Harbor? REMEMBER, war wasnt officially declared against Japan until after troops and ships were mobilized to begin attack. So would it have been better to wait?
I suppose the US should have stayed out of the Euro theater and off Hitler's back since that wasnt in our country. We should have waited until he had killed or assimilated every person in Europe and became a really serious threat to Russia. Why would we get involved with this campaign of the war? Well, Britain for one requested assistance, and we after the Japanese attack, were not in the mood to allow another supervillian a chance to dominate the world.

Granted Iraq is not on such a scale as this. But it takes the guts of the most powerful country in the world, to not be afraid of critics and step up to the plate to answer the cries of the Iraqi people. They wanted hi removed, they begged for it. It wasnt often heard because most were too scared to open their mouths for fear of having their testicles crushed, or their babies eviscerated from their mothers wombs. But a few did, and a few managed to escape the country and seek asylum elswhere. I know that people are apathetic and dont care as long as they are safe and warm in the US and want to preach that we should remain aloof from the problems (but of course, we should bow to France and give tons of money to these countries while not having a say in their affairs); but to remove an evil man from a position he abuses and uses to torture his citizens, I will never deny is a noble persuit.

For those who love to chant the ignorant cry of "it's all about oil", please remember the CY-2464! Also, as you drive your 13mpg giant truck (to overcompensate for your tiny penis) to work and heat your house in the cold, and use a refridgerator and watch TV and type on the damned computer, remember its YOUR fault that we need more oil. If you want to change the world, get off your fuckin ass and create cold fusion.
 

Phantom

Knight
At least were trying to solve our mistakes if we give/help Sadam raise to power.

Might have taken us awhile, but were giving it back to the people.

Anyone who thinks we in Iraq for oil is in fact, blind to what happen 9-11. We have sat back way to long, its time for action.
 

bizbol

Wanderer
I understand what you guys are saying, and can appreciate it. But, as Dr. put it in his "own personnal way", this discussion is going nowhere.
 

Dr.

Wanderer
they keep stopping me posting what i am saying!

basically, george Bush is just a play toy of his generals to get oil in america thats what its all about, fuck saddam, hes just some sort of toy to keep the press at bay :)

Yea, the disscussion is getting nowhere, lets go back to the orginal question, IF you had a rocket luancher what would you do?
 

Phantom

Knight
Dr. said:
they keep stopping me posting what i am saying!

basically, george Bush is just a play toy of his generals to get oil in america thats what its all about, fuck saddam, hes just some sort of toy to keep the press at bay :)

Yea, the disscussion is getting nowhere, lets go back to the orginal question, IF you had a rocket luancher what would you do?

What evidence do you have that Bush is in ther for the oil?

We have our own oil, we don't need to lose lifes to get cheaper oil.

Again, I do not think Bush went in there for oil. There were are better ways to do that like buy the fucking oil from saddam.
 

Dr.

Wanderer
Phantom said:
What evidence do you have that Bush is in ther for the oil?

We have our own oil, we don't need to lose lifes to get cheaper oil.

Again, I do not think Bush went in there for oil. There were are better ways to do that like buy the fucking oil from saddam.


Well, firstly bush's family is a oil family, if you look into his history, you'll find his family are oil tycoons,

America is a greedy country, its basically victorian britain in the 21st centruy trying to get an empire.

Its cheaper to get the oil by your self, and make some extra money by selling it to the Iraqi's and countries around it
 

Phantom

Knight
Dr. said:
Well, firstly bush's family is a oil family, if you look into his history, you'll find his family are oil tycoons,

America is a greedy country, its basically victorian britain in the 21st centruy trying to get an empire.

Its cheaper to get the oil by your self, and make some extra money by selling it to the Iraqi's and countries around it

Doesn't prove he is going in there for oil.

So your anti-american I can see.

Were giving them their country in June, exactly when will we go in there and sell it to ourselfs, we would be buying it from them.

Where are the facts that he went in their for oil, he is in te oil busness big deal, doesn't prove thats why he went in their.
 

Phantom

Knight
Dr. said:
they keep stopping me posting what i am saying!

basically, george Bush is just a play toy of his generals to get oil in america thats what its all about, fuck saddam, hes just some sort of toy to keep the press at bay :)

Yea, the disscussion is getting nowhere, lets go back to the orginal question, IF you had a rocket luancher what would you do?

Because I nor does any american appreciate somebody bad mouthing our presdent. If we want to do that, we have earned the right.

I know I am right, only expection is Clinton that whacko was never our leader was to busy getting dirty with the women at the white house to run our country.

Anyone if anyone wants to see how bad ass bush really is, play the following game:

http://www.miniclip.com/bushshootout.htm
 

psz

Administrator
Afgahnistan made sense: Get the fuckers who attacked us.

Iraq does not.

Bush, his family, and almost everyone in the administration have oil interests, SPECIFICALLY in the Gulf Region. (Condoliza Rice used to have two oil tankers named after her... Once Bush went into office, the names were changed)

Look at a map. Look where Afghanistan is. Then look at Iraq. Then look at Iran.

See those two bodies of water? Companies (US and otherwise) have been trying for DECADES to get a functional pipeline from one to the other, without having to spend $$$ to pay the gov'ts invovled. Reason: LOTS of oil. And if the US controls that pipeline, it becomes CHEAP oil. Yes, cheaper the US oil, because the companies won't have to follow US rules and regulations.

On top of which, Bush, Cheney, and a number of others all have MAJOR money in... The Defense Industry. If there is a war, there is money. Period. End of story.

Why would a man spend MILLIONS of dollars to become president, which makes less than a million/year?

Money runs this country, without doubt.

Oil wasn't the only reason we went there. Money and Votes helped, too.

Don't get me wrong: Saddam sucked. He probably should have been taken out of office years ago. Instead, the US supplied him with chemical weapons to use against Iran in the 80s. We had NUMEROUS chances to keep Saddam from becoming a problem. And to be honest, he was NEVER a threat to the US.

On top of which, Al Quaeda wanted Saddam out, too.

We just did them a favour.
 

sidsid

Sorceror
psz said:
Afgahnistan made sense: Get the fuckers who attacked us.

Iraq does not.

Bush, his family, and almost everyone in the administration have oil interests, SPECIFICALLY in the Gulf Region. (Condoliza Rice used to have two oil tankers named after her... Once Bush went into office, the names were changed)

Look at a map. Look where Afghanistan in. Then look at Iraq. Then look at Iran.

See those two bodies of oil? Companies (US and otherwise) have been trying for DECADES to get a functional pipeline from one to the other, without having to spend $$$ to pay the gov'ts invovled.

On top of which, Bush, Cheney, and a number of others all have MAJOR money in... The Defense Industry. If there is a war, there is money. Period. End of story.

Why would a man spend MILLIONS of dollars to become president, which makes less than a million/year?

Money runs this country, without doubt.

Oil wasn't the only reason we went there. Money and Votes helped, too.

Working at BP Amaco, I would have to disagree with you slightly. With all the money granted via the Bush administration to research alternative energies we've been given the objective to reduce oil and crude mineral resource consumption by 25% in 10 years. That seems like a long time, but be assured, the possibility of that happening is STAGGERING to us who know about it. Now we see hydroelectric (most promising for cars) and other energy sources becoming a viable realistic alternative. Dont think Bush needs to conquer countries for oil to get money. The other energies are jsut as profitable WITH LESS OVERHEAD! No trade budgets or anything like that to cut into profitability. So if his goals are focused on money, then you must be wrong about his objectives for Iraq.

America is a greedy country, its basically victorian britain in the 21st centruy trying to get an empire

"Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return."
 

psz

Administrator
sidsid said:
Working at BP Amaco, I would have to disagree with you slightly. With all the money granted via the Bush administration to research alternative energies we've been given the objective to reduce oil and crude mineral resource consumption by 25% in 10 years. That seems like a long time, but be assured, the possibility of that happening is STAGGERING to us who know about it. Now we see hydroelectric (most promising for cars) and other energy sources becoming a viable realistic alternative. Dont think Bush needs to conquer countries for oil to get money. The other energies are jsut as profitable WITH LESS OVERHEAD! No trade budgets or anything like that to cut into profitability. So if his goals are focused on money, then you must be wrong about his objectives for Iraq.



"Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return."


Disagree all you want. One of our customers' customers is Texaco/Shell. Smith Industries flat out told us when Bush went into office that they pretty much KNEW a war in the Middle East would happen, and that the pipeline would be started.

Since the war, they've been placing bids for contracts in Afgahnistan and Iraq for pipeline use... They forcast in the next ten years an increase in revenue in the 175-350% range, if they can win those bids.

Guess what? There's a pipeline in Afgahnistan now. There's already plans to connect it to one in Iraq.

Bush's comment about hydrogen power was fluff, and members of the adminstration have admitted it was added to the state of the union to deflect oil questions about the middle east interest.

Considering I am one who's had to draw oil/water/gas pipelines (submerged and afloat) onto the British Nautical charts for the past few years as part of my job, I think I know quite a bit about where the pipelines are laid, when they were laid, and what company owns the wells/platforms the come from/go to.

But please, disprove that Bush doesn't want oil money, OR that there isn't a pipeline, OR any of the rest.
 

sidsid

Sorceror
Don't get me wrong: Saddam sucked. He probably should have been taken out of office years ago. Instead, the US supplied him with chemical weapons to use against Iran in the 80s. We had NUMEROUS chances to keep Saddam from becoming a problem. And to be honest, he was NEVER a threat to the US.

He has always been a "bad guy" but since at the time Iran was the biggest threat to the world and to our oil supply, we needed to find a semisupporter in the region which happened to be the baath party which had been kept down until support from the US. It didnt buy the US the favor it wanted but it did buy some time.
As for supplying chemical weapons the only indication of that was a shipment from Virginia to Bagdhad in 1986 that "supposedly" consisted of strains of anthrax, strains of botulinum toxin and the bacteria that cause gaseous gangrene. However the proof for that is shakey at best, but it has become a great story for the conspiratorial media.
I think its just blown out of preportion by all the people who want there to be some sort of vicious conspiracy to conquer the world behind everything thats done in the gov.
 
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