RunUO Community

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The Matrix Reloaded-Why can Neo stop the sentinel?

stakex

Wanderer
for that "you learn how to in the matrix" thing.... again use the UO example. I learned how to create things in UO but just because i have the knowledge of how to do it, that dosnt mean you can. Great thought thou :)

With the stoping of the setinals, everyone i know says its an EMP from another ship, but if you think about it that ship arived way to fast to have just used an EMP. Remember the ship has to be compleatly shutdown. It would have had to start up again.

I feel that the Matrix inside a MAtrix theroy is the only possible outcome. How could the developer tell Neo that Zion was going to be destroyed and this and that unless it has already been planed. UNLESS this is all just a lie to get Neo away from the sorce. However that is very unlikly. Then with the whole oracle being a program, and telling the people in the "real world" what there destiny is. How could the computer program inside the Matrix have any idea what is going to happen. Unless that as welll has been scripted?

Personally i feel Neo is a computer program inside the "Real Matrix" but he dosnt know it. (Probly not but it would be cool)
 

Cmonkey123

Wanderer
tindin said:
see did die he got the bullet out yes...but see still died. then you played with her heart a little a see cam back from the dead....the hole reason she said some think like "i guess i need you too" or something like that but she did die.

Wtf are you saying? I can barely understand what you are trying to pass to me... but if you are saying that trinity dies, she doesn't. She is in the next few scenes that make up the ending of the movie. What other proof do you need?! SHE LIVED!!!!
 

Cmonkey123

Wanderer
stakex said:
With the stoping of the setinals, everyone i know says its an EMP from another ship, but if you think about it that ship arived way to fast to have just used an EMP. Remember the ship has to be compleatly shutdown. It would have had to start up again.

How could it have been an EMP from another ship? The ship has to be within close range of the sentiels for the EMP to work. In that scene where Neo destroys the sentiels there where no ships near by. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I really think that Neo and Smith mixed powers, and Neo now has a link to the machines. Afterall, that is what Agent Smith said when he was explaining how he had the power to virally dupicate.

stakex said:
I feel that the Matrix inside a MAtrix theroy is the only possible outcome. How could the developer tell Neo that Zion was going to be destroyed and this and that unless it has already been planed. UNLESS this is all just a lie to get Neo away from the sorce. However that is very unlikly. Then with the whole oracle being a program, and telling the people in the "real world" what there destiny is. How could the computer program inside the Matrix have any idea what is going to happen. Unless that as welll has been scripted?

Personally i feel Neo is a computer program inside the "Real Matrix" but he dosnt know it. (Probly not but it would be cool)

About the Matrix within the Matrix thing is dumb... why would the creators want to make the ending of one of the greatest science fiction movies a cliffhanger. I watched several documentaries about the making of the Matrix, and in all of them people who had worked in the movie said that the movie is going to come to an ultimate close. The Matrix inside the Matrix thing would not be an ultimate close, it would just be a cliff hanger ending, and I, personally, would find that a bit stupid.

And as for the Oracle knowing the future, she explained how she could do it. She was able to read the code of the Matrix and predict what is going to happen. She also said that she could only see the possible choices in the future, not the exact outcome. Neo is also getting the power to see into the future if you paied close attention to the movie. So the "careful" scripting and the Matrix inside the Matrix I highly doubt will be the final outcome of the Matrix.
 

Dalius

Wanderer
What Neo did to Trinity is what Trinity did to Neo in the first one. She was dead, and he pumped her heart back.
 
L

Lost User

Guest
Cmonkey123 said:
And what's this with the humans not accepting a "perfect world?"
What could the humans do about it to say they don't accept a perfect world? They can't just get out of those pod things and say to the robots, "This perfect world really sucks! Can you make it something less perfect so I can accept it?!"

The lost thousands of human batterys with the perfect matrix... when the program got rejected they humans died. You can hear about this if you watch the first matrix, when Smith is talking to Morphus in the high security building.

Flare said:
What Neo did to Trinity is what Trinity did to Neo in the first one. She was dead, and he pumped her heart back.

I agree maby trinity pumped Neo's heart back in the first movie... but not that Neo pumped Trinitys heart back... I mean they were both strapped down and tapped into the matrix. There is no physical contact made between them.

But you have hit a good idear... considering the brain is still active for a short period of time after the heart stops pumping (before braindamage sets in) maby the brain kickstarted the heart because it thought that it was working again (lol, that confuses me and I am the one who am typing it)

Hummm.... I guess to really know the truth we will have to watch the 3rd movie or find out if there is a book series (havent seen them)

- DK
 
L

Lost User

Guest
Cmonkey123 said:
I really wanna get that animatrix dvd though, it looks great!

It is *Grins*

Oh and alot of movies (and games for that matter) have books relating to them. For example the Baulders Gate series of games are based off the books.....

I dont know what normally comes first with movies... is it book then movie or movie then book? Im guessing book then movie for most things.... its normally the cheapest first.

- DK
 

Bradley

Sorceror
Other possability is that it is NOT a matrix inside the matrix, but that they never left the matrix after Neo met the Archetect.

My gut feeling still goes with Matrix in a Matrix, as it fits with the whole "What is real, and what isn't" theme.

As for the Matrix in a Matrix thing not really posing an ending to the story, I would remind you of "The Lady and the Tiger", some stories are better off without a defined ending.
 

Cmonkey123

Wanderer
Bradley said:
Other possability is that it is NOT a matrix inside the matrix, but that they never left the matrix after Neo met the Archetect.

Why whould they have not left the Matrix after meeting the Architect?

I just think that the whole Matrix within a Matrix would totally ruin the end of the Matrix trilogy. :?
 

karlfranz

Wanderer
The idea of a matrix in a matrix is wise.

Think you're the architect.
You must made a unbreakable matrix to serve the machine.

You will made a matrix with a "real world matrix" and a "illusion matrix" the first simulate the real world... the sentinel, zion ... and the second create a illusion world ; the years 1999 world.

Like this Neo can "destroy the years 1999 world matrix. and rebuild zion ... the other matrix and don't destroy the ultimate matrix.

Now the humanity have the "choice" of liberate all human and stilll slave of the ultimate matrix.

Is the perfect steath matrix. Néo must find find the true "main core" and destroy hum the really liberate the humanity. and after they will see the true true real world, this one... nobody know him.

NB Why the oracle (a computer program) help neo too destroy the matrix??? because she know she will not die if neo destroy the years 1999 matrix. the real one will live forever. a computer program can't be program to destroy himself.
 

Cmonkey123

Wanderer
karlfranz said:
The idea of a matrix in a matrix is wise.

Think you're the architect.
You must made a unbreakable matrix to serve the machine.

You will made a matrix with a "real world matrix" and a "illusion matrix" the first simulate the real world... the sentinel, zion ... and the second create a illusion world ; the years 1999 world.

Like this Neo can "destroy the years 1999 world matrix. and rebuild zion ... the other matrix and don't destroy the ultimate matrix.

Now the humanity have the "choice" of liberate all human and stilll slave of the ultimate matrix.

Is the perfect steath matrix. Néo must find find the true "main core" and destroy hum the really liberate the humanity. and after they will see the true true real world, this one... nobody know him.

NB Why the oracle (a computer program) help neo too destroy the matrix??? because she know she will not die if neo destroy the years 1999 matrix. the real one will live forever. a computer program can't be program to destroy himself.

Uh... your arguments make no sense. The Matrix within a Matrix really isn't a wise idea, especially for the creators. I saw like 10 documentaries on the making of The Matrix, and when the ending was discussed, all the actors and workers for The Matrix said that the last movie would have a fufilling ending that brings all the movies to a final close. The Matrix within a Matrix would not be a good ending to the trilogy because it wouldn't really bring the movies to an ultimate end.

And about the oracle, it's not a program that is destroying itself. It is a program created to tell the future, not a program created to destroy The Matrix. The Matrix and the oracle are two completely different programs, so the oracle wouldn't be destroying itself anyways.

And who said that the oracle program was working with the Matrix? Maybe it is just a run away program that is not doing its task, or perhaps it is a program created by someone who doesn't work with the creators of the Matrix. And even if the Matrix was destroyed, she wouldn't live to survive in the "real world Matrix." She is a program that exists in the Matrix, and so if the Matrix went down, she would go with it.
 

Kry0420

Wanderer
Actually, if you pay close attention to the movie, you have to mix in the speech from the Architect and from The Oracle. The architect was talking about how the one thing that they couldn't simulate was emotion, and Neo says, "That's why she was created?" she being The Oracle, being the link to human emotion, by way of communicating, telling the choices that can be made, and observing the choices that are made and the actual outcome.
 

qweazdak

Wanderer
if you wanna read more closely heres the script for the conversation between neo and the architect. please dont read it if you havent seen the movie.

-----------------------------------------------------

Architect: hello Neo.

Neo: Who are you?

Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix I've been waiting for you.
You have many questions, and though the process has altered your consciousness you remain irrevocably human ergo some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not.
Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realise it is also the most irrelevant.

Neo: Why am I here?

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. you are the eventuallity of an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden asciduously avoided it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably....here

Neo: You haven't answered my question.

Architect: Quite right. Interesting...that was quicker than the others.

(TV "Neo"s:
Others [how many others?] what others? answer my question!)

Architect: The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the 6th version.

(Tv Neos:
5 ones before me? 4...3..2.. what are you talking about? There are only 2 possible explanations, either no one told me....)
Neo: ...or no one knows.

Architect: Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly is systemic--creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

(Tv Neos:
You can't contol me!
I'm gonna smash the wall
I'll fukkin kill you!
etc..)

Neo: Choice. The problem is choice.

Cut to Trinity vs Agent.

Architect: The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art...flawless, sublime. And triumphed equally only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus. I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another--An intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its Mother.

Neo: The Oracle.

Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice...even if they were only awar e of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probablility of disaster.

Neo: This is about Zion.

Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed--its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existance eradicated.

Neo: Bullshit
(TV Neos:
Bullshit!
Bullshit!
Bullshit!)

Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses, but rest assured...this will be the 6th time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

Cut to Trinity vs Agent

Architect: The function of the One is now to return to the Source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you cary, reinserting the prime program. After which, you will be required to selevt from the matrix 23 individuals--16 females, 7 male--to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo: You won't let it happen. You can't. You need human beings to survive.

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility of the death of every human being on this world.
It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication--a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific--vis a vie..love.

Neo: Trinity.

Architect: Appropos, she entered the matrix to save your life, at the cost of her own.

Neo: No...

Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end.
There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the Source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the matrix, to her and to the end of your Species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already, I can see the chain-reaction--the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason--an emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth...she is going to die, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Architect: Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

Architect: We won't.

Neo exits out of the left door.

----------------------------------------------------------
 
Top