Denial of Service attacks???

[stormwolff]

People just need to stop all this we deserve this and that crap. You deserve whatever the runuo team is willing to give you. They don't have to do any of this or give you anything. We should be happy for what they do and have done and not bitching about what they have not done.

They were attacked and don't feel like working on something. They have lives, work, and family outside runuo. Let them go enjoy it. Everybody needs time away from a project once in a while. Perhaps that time away will help the release of the next version. Instead of working on it day after day they will be refreshed, rested, and more willing to put in time on this overwhelming project.

My .02

 

[-=Magic=-]

It's not really fair to compare the number of RunUO releases to the number of OSI releases. OSI has an entire team of paid employees whose full time job is to write code. RunUO is done as a hobby in the spare time of people who have other full time responsibilities. Big difference.

Also, although releases have been slower this year, one thing you can say about RunUO is that the software is thoroughly tested before it is released. I'd rather have one release that is rock solid than a dozen releases filled with bugs.

Testing has been done from the community too. Then the forum bugs has been removed. (i never understan why. already its seems that our (normal community) testing support isn't necessary anymore...



From the runUO site:

One of the large reasons for RunUO's initial success and continued success is without doubt its community.

and again:


The community behind this project came to us in the beginning because we provided them with something they weren't used to.


and again:

Attention and rapid development. We paid attention to the users needs within the community and focused on driving home a solid, stable, bug-free software package that would be the forerunner of Ultima Online server software.

 

[-=Magic=-]

.....QUOTE]

You, like me, come from POL. Do you remember the old "POL situation" ?

Month and month of waiting.... and waiting.... where every week they say to us: we are working.....

where syzyz, was desappeared.... and so on....

 

[HellRazor]

I am just as anxious as anyone else for the next release, but I understand that the devs have lives outside of RunUO. They deserve our positive reinforcement, understanding, and support, not a lot of complaining. I look at it this way, if someone gives me $10 out of the kindness of their heart, my response will be "thank you", not "when will I get my next $10"!

Anyways, based on Ryan's announcement today, it looks like the wait will soon be over! Even after all the crap from the past few weeks Ryan, Krrios, and team have still come through for us.

Thanks, RunUO devs, for providing us the best and most powerful UO EMU that has ever seen the light of day - I really appreciate all the hard work, patience, and generosity of the RunUO team. YOU RULE!

 

[psz]

To PSZ:
The RunUO team, isn't so present to the community like before. Why?

Let's see... Having to write, from scratch, 5 publishes worth of info, dealing with IRL issues, dealing with Holidays, dealing with DDoS', dealing with paying for the server, dealing with school, dealing with work...


I dunno, why do you THINK there's less visible Dev appearances?


As for OSI having 5 pubs, and no RunUO releases: OSI has the code. They wrote it. RunUO has to FIGURE OUT how OSI wrote the code, and make it work (Generally as part of AOS as well as keeping the Non-AOS side working, and NOW adding an SE core as well).

It's easy to create something when you have all the info at your fingertips. When you have to spend time researching all of the numbers, timers, IDs, and whatnot from someone ELSE (In this case, getting info from OSI), it tends to take longer.

Use some common sense here, people.

 

[mikelezz]

OSI developers have a very very hard job to do: to think WHAT to change and HOW; to hear the needings of their players and trying to make the most part of them happy.
This is hard for them like is hard for us obtaining info on what they really changed.
Coding stuff is NEVER too difficult. Of course, if there are good coders around. It is hard only write some GOOD code but this is not necessary (OSI's code is a big piece of sh.. you know.. ^^ ).
And keep in mind that OSI has NOT "an entire team of paid employees whose full time job is to write code" .. lol .. it has only Mr.Tactics and EvilMantes who coded everything and know everything about the scripts.. only 2 PEOPLE!!! :O
And no, they are not "supermen" .. they are guys like us ..

We could have tons of coders, betatesters, if only we wanted.. Not 2 people! We could have tens of coders! Maybe an hundred!
Firefox is open source, has a great interest in its community (bug reporting, helping, completely free, ecc) and updates regularly. See what it is now..
We have instead an impenetrable locked core (even if a lot of people unofficially decompiled it.. err..), some phantoms that deal the persons badly with absolutly no reasons, a lot of people afraid to speak in the forum, some people (me) that try to help in the forum but gets only ridicolous answers ("what you said isn't on OSI, script youself".. LOL.. ignoring guy.. ), no updates in a year, some kind of "parent" developers that punish the "bad boys"... ehm.. it is just me or don't you see something a little different? ._.

I know my words will be lost in the last pages of this forum but think about it.. RunUO seems to slowly becoming a commercial product.. At the beginnings I thought we were all here for fun and helping each others.. now I don't know.. it seems like everyone is mad for "subscribers", "item selling on shards", "paypal".. and in every topic there is a little reminder "you don't have any choice, if you want to have an ultima online server you have to use runuo, so don't speak, don't critic, don't bother us and keep thanking until the rest of your life" (or.. lol.. use pol..).
What's next? A nice retail box "RunUO" for only 39,90$... ?

ok, with my post runuo will be delayed for a month
miky bad boy! has to be punished ..
and also ban account on runuo shards so next time i'll say only good gay things and not critics
...

*you see mikelezz go whipping himself*


edit:

The latest release is sitting in three or four harddrives around the country waiting to be merged and tested"

yes.. I can imagine the logs
devA: "if you give me paragon, i give you SE".. devB: "no, first give me SE then i'll give you paragon".."but..err.. SE is not yet finished.. just give me paragon so i can see if everything is ok" .. "but i can't.. i'm waiting for krioss' fix for my core" .. krioss: "i can't give you the new core, i'm testing it, give me instead your scripts" .. devA"ehm..ehrr... telephone call.. i have to go" .. devB"*the user is offline*"..

 

[psz]

Mike, you obviously haven't got a clue as to what you're talking about.

There are, in fact, dozens of people coding, writing, and developing on OSI.

There are, in fact, 5 RunUO Devs (2 of whom are taking breaks), and a small number of people who get info FROM OSI *FOR* RunUO.

OSI creates something. A: The come up with the idea. B: Code it. C: Test it. D: Apply it.

RunUO must now A: Find out WHAT they did. B: Find out HOW they did it. C: Make sure it matches (exactly). D: Make sure it doesn't break anything currently in RunUO. E: Code it. F: Test it. G: Apply it.

As you can see, there are two extra steps. These steps aren't exactly quickies, either.

Example, Neither Stratics nor UO.com has the exact Karma/Fame on any of the new SE creatures. They have NO stats whatsoever on the Ronin. They have extremely out of date info on Runebooks, Spells, Items, Rules, Timers, etc. All of which RunUO must log onto OSI and spend hours gathering the proper info to get it all right.

OSI doesn't have to do this. They decide to change something, they change it. Half the time without announcing the specifics (Yes, they may say "We increased the chance of BLAH", but they rarely say "We've increased the chances by .4% in situation A, .7% in situation B, etc)

If OSI changes how luck affects something, they generally just say "Luck does more". They give no stats, no figures, no anything.

All of this means.......... RunUO has a slower dev cycle due to having to FIGURE THIS ALL OUT!

 

[TMSTKSBK]

Just out of random curiousity...

Who exactly are the "5 Devs to Rule Them All"? there's Ryan, ASayre8, David? and who?

 

[cfaust]

Magic: you are the superficial one, you are the one hounding the devs because it's been 9 months since the last release; you are the one that wants the devs stop working on the core and tell you every little thing that goes on; your post about such is completely selfish and I can't go further on that subject without stooping to your level of logic.

if someone gives me $10 out of the kindness of their heart, my response will be "thank you", not "when will I get my next $10"!

This is something I can agree with; the RunUO team has not put their hands out and asked directly for money to support this project. Just because you donate, or subscribe doesn't give you the right to demand special treatment, with the exception of the Subscriber forums. The time difference between RC releases is going to be much longer because the product you are getting when you download an RC is a stable shelvable piece of software, it's basically a finished product but not the last version to be released.

Magic, I dare you to take your logic and use it on Bill Gates and Microsoft and coherce them in to giving you all the details on the next release of Windows, and force them to let you have it now rather than when it's ready for the shelf.

*throws up his hands* Thanks Magic, I'm done with this thread now too. I've had to edit three or four times just so I don't sound like I want to throttle you.

 

[TMSTKSBK]

Heheh...more stable than the "shelvable" versions of a certain OS by a certain aforementioned company...

 

[Sep102]

Just out of random curiousity...

Who exactly are the "5 Devs to Rule Them All"? there's Ryan, ASayre8, David? and who?

Ryan, Asayre8, Mark, Krrios, and Zippy. (I believe it's Ryan and Krrios who are away, someone correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[psz]

Ryan is away because, to be blunt without getting too personal, his RL has sucked lately. Royally. (Hoping it's better, if not now, then soon)

krrios is away because he's on a RL vacation, which he greatly deserves

Yes, those are the 5 devs, BTW.


I'll throw my hat into the "I'm done with this thread" ring as well.


At this point, I'm quite close to being done with RunUO in general. The users here are becoming worse than the whole of the Sphere and UOX communities combined.

 

[mikelezz]

There are, in fact, dozens of people coding, writing, and developing on OSI.

LOL! No! Statman, Mr.Tactics, Leurocian, EvilMantis, Ferbert
This should be the "live team" the only one that has access to the scripts and is able to modify them. They usually don't work all together but everyone code something different (or simply don't code).

Dozens of people is simply madness!!! They have to make little adjustments to the scripts, not creating an entire game!!! :O

Of course, when OSI decided to make samurai empire (yes, that espansion in that nice retail box) there were many other people coding stuff (artwork, monsters, textures, weapons, ecc), other creating stuff (images, ecc) and so on.

BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SCRIPTS & PUBLISHES, RIGHT? So the "live team" is the way to go.

OSI creates something. A: The come up with the idea. B: Code it. C: Test it. D: Apply it.

RunUO must now A: Find out WHAT they did. B: Find out HOW they did it. C: Make sure it matches (exactly). D: Make sure it doesn't break anything currently in RunUO. E: Code it. F: Test it. G: Apply it.

As you can see, there are two extra steps. These steps aren't exactly quickies, either.

You are wrong... You modelled the steps in order to be right.

OSI:
Obtaing info from the players.
Discussing Idea with live team.
Thinking about balance corrections.
Coding.
Compiling.
Bugfixings.
Testing.
Balance corrections (item A does too much damage, item B is in a wrong place).
Re-Coding.
Testing.
Applying.
Obtain info from the players (do they like the new changes? are there other bugs?).

RUNUO:
Obtaining info from the publishes/forums.
In-game (OSI test shard) info check and formulas coding.
Coding.
Compiling.
Bugfixing.
Testing.
Applying.

 

[cfaust]

TMSTKSBK: It's a sad thing when the software you run in a certain OS is more stable than the OS it was designed for. Which speaks tons for the dev team; and another thing, I don't remember them posting any hard core promises as to when the next Release Client would be available.

Sometimes I read these threads and I feel bad for the entire RunUO team, and the community members that truely want to support the RunUO team regardless of the time, date or number of releases, without having to know every little detail. They seem to do a great job of putting the details in a text file with the release. And they do it for free; free to us, only in frustration has Ryan even mentioned making us purchase a copy of RunUO with all the strings attached, mainly because of the things that people like Magic say.

I know I said I was done; but Mike and Magic have really hit a nerve with me with their selfish opinions and Magic's silly comments for my opinionated/partially factual defence of the Developers. Yes, there are a few shards that have a new release, no it's not a club, they are official RunUO Test Centers, they are set up for your enjoyment, and to also further development of RunUO. I am not officially associated with RunUO other than my RunUO logo on my web page, which is there in support of the entire RunUO project. I am currently a subscriber, I did donate before the subscription services, but I never expected nor demanded any preferential treatment in exchange.

psz: sorry bro, but it looks like you and the other Moderators here have your jobs cut out for you, if you need me to be cannon fodder I can do that

 

[Sep102]

mikelezz, you have enlightened me. I had absolutely no idea that you knew more about RunUO's development process than the actual developers of it and the moderators that interact very closely with the developers, I mean you were even able to correct someone about RunUO's development process who has more information about it than you could ever hope to.

You know what? I think there needs to be a nice big disclaimer in the forum rules for people just like you, -Magic- and the others who are so seemingly dissatisfied with the RunUO project and its development team.

If you think that our development methods are incorrect for our own project, or you think that you know more than us about our own project, or think that you could do a better job than us on an Ultima Online emulator, or you are dissatisfied with our emulator, us, or our development process, you are free, at any time that you would like, to go off and write your own emulator.

 

[cfaust]

*applauds Sep102*

Thank you, I second that motion

RunUO has been a high quality product even during it's beta stages: I have faith in the RunUO team that when they are fully ready for the next release, which has been announced, it will be just as good, and better than the prior release.

Here is my honest opinion; all other emulators blow chuncks, I've read some other articles here and there about how people quit developing their own emu because RunUO is all that and a bag of chips too.

mikelezz, magic: at the threat of sounding childish, at this point in time you can chew on my left toe nail on my pinky toe, I'll cut a piece off and send it to you, then maybe you will have something better to do than ridicule RunUO.

 

[TMSTKSBK]

To cfaust--
I agree, it is sad. ummmm...I don't remember saying anything about a promise of when it's giong to be released...There's an announcement saying it'll be released around 1/1/05 (shortly thereafter). Otherwise I don't know.

Edit: I'm not impatient for the release. I'm happy with RC0. I'm not going to shrivel up and die if it's not released within the next five minutes. Also, I know how software just takes a while to get finished. I'm not going to pester the dev team just b/c I want more features. They're doing this out of the goodness of their heart, and we're just along for the ride. So let's all just chill out and hang in there. Then we can party all the harder when RC1 is released!

 

[cfaust]

Thank you TMSTKSBK, you basically helped to prove a minor point that besides the subject of factions, a lot of the nay-sayers have completely missed, there was no "promised" release date, other than "When it's done..." Unless of course some one can point me to a thread, post or a likeness or facimle there of that specifically states prior to the announcement of the possibility of a release soon.

Hey; lets do something really childish and silly, lets start a petition to have Mikelezz and Magic squelched until after the release of RC1

 

[David]

I am tempted to close this thread, but it would really only be because I am tired. This is Starbucks after all, but sheesh, coming into Ryan's house and talking trash is really crossing the line.

psz, I know all to well how you feel. What I really enjoy about RunUO is writing scripts and helping out in Script Support, but time to do either is so hard to come by anymore. I only live about 200 miles away, we could meet at the Beau Rivage, drink some Guinness, and laugh about the umm special members. Might do us both good...

oh and nah, I'm not a Dev. Just a poor sap who actually thought being a Moderator would be fun. (double )

Miss? can I have another?

 

[David]

Hey; lets do something really childish and silly, lets start a petition to have Mikelezz and Magic squelched until after the release of RC1

Now THAT I would endorse! (Triple )