Paternal Abortion Rights

[WarAngel]

What about the fact that most of the women who want an abortion will find a way to do it anyway, illegally. Yay for more problems.

but omg those bitches made a mistake so they deserve to accept the consequences even if it might literally fuck them up internally!

 

[shrundowr]

lol clotheshanger abortions.

 

[Johabius]

members of Congress caught excepting brides*

1 bride per congressman please. Polygamy is still illegal. Oh wait...

 

[shrundowr]

1 bride per congressman please. Polygamy is still illegal. Oh wait...

Ya also except/accept. Methinks WA was in a bit of a hurry.

 

[WarAngel]

Ya also except/accept. Methinks WA was in a bit of a hurry.

Been running raids all day in WoW. Youthinks correctly.

 

[InOverMyHead]

but omg those bitches made a mistake so they deserve to accept the consequences even if it might literally fuck them up internally!

So let's all go out and have an abortion and rectify the mistake so we can all go out and make the same mistake again and again and again?

 

[HellRazor]

So let's all go out and have an abortion and rectify the mistake so we can all go out and make the same mistake again and again and again?

You're right. Everyone's mistakes should be LEGISLATED and STRICTLY ENFORCED.

 

[Ortanith]

Being male I say the man has no right in determining if a women has to keep a baby she does not want to carry for 9 months you see they do not have a choice to carry the baby for 9 months but a guy can change his mind up and leave like so many dead beat dads

 

[Ortanith]

It's preventing life from being conceived, which is exactly what we do with abortion.



You can call it whatever you want. I say it is legal action until it is born. I refuse to give full human rights to an organism which does not have human conciousness (if you don't know what I mean by human conciousness, it's that thing that we as humans have mentally that everything else doesn't; there is no word for it).

Along with that, it is impossible to provide two beings in the same body equal rights. One will automatically receive a veto over the other on this issue. You argue that we give the veto to nothing more than an organism, while I (and others) argue that we give the veto to a fully-fledged human being.

Again, you are so humanitarian about this, yet once they're born, you don't give a flying fuck about them. Why so hypocritical?



lol ^_^

Seriously though, I would accept more funding towards adoptions, foster homes, etc. While I am totally pro-abortion in the sense that I think it is a realistic option and should be promoted as such, I think providing alternate options is a great idea.

I agree with the point to born thing but I beg to differ every living creature including plants from my research feels pain and is self aware thus conscience

edit* Just for fact I do eat all kinds of meat and plants just because its selfaware and feels pain does not stop me I need to survive I draw the line of course at my own species oh and my pets I could never harm/kill/eat them

Oh and just another thought making abortions illegal would infringe on the womens right to freedom while keeping abortions legal does not infringe on any American citizens rights sense the United States Government refuses to give citizenship to anyone if there not born yet

 

[HellRazor]

Being male I say the man has no right in determining if a women has to keep a baby she does not want to carry for 9 months you see they do not have a choice to carry the baby for 9 months but a guy can change his mind up and leave like so many dead beat dads

No, the guy CAN'T just "change his mind" about being the father. They call them "deadbeat dads" for a reason, the reason is that they aren't paying child support as required by the law. The guy is held legally and financially responsible for the baby, even though he has no say in whether or not the baby is born, or if he didn't want the baby.

Which creates a lot of situations where the mother has every incentive to have the baby whether she can properly support the baby or not. Incentives range between everything from feeding romantic notions of having a baby to trapping fathers into relationships to financial incentives, not to mention following religious or personal beliefs about abortion. Custody is rarely an issue either since the courts usually show preferential treatment to awarding custody to mothers. Quite franky, to some moms, babies have become a means of additional income through welfare, child support payments, and tax breaks. All to often, the reasons for having babies are entirely driven by selfishness and have nothing to do with the health and welfare of the babies themselves.

Which is why the father should have some say in whether or not the baby is born (IMHO). If the baby is born against the father's wishes then the father should be absolved of financial responsibility. But of course it's not quite so easy because the child's welfare becomes the main priority in the eyes of the law once it is born and it's hard to argue against that. But its a vicious circle and both the mom and the dad can get screwed out of it, but the mom is the only one who has the choice (aside from the obvious choice for men to not have sex or to have protected sex).

 

[HellRazor]

I agree with the point to born thing but I beg to differ every living creature including plants from my research feels pain and is self aware thus conscience

edit* Just for fact I do eat all kinds of meat and plants just because its selfaware and feels pain does not stop me I need to survive I draw the line of course at my own species oh and my pets I could never harm/kill/eat them

A bit off topic, but plants are neither "conscience" or "self aware".

2 minutes of googling turned this up. Sounds accurate to me.

Plants, when stressed, release a chemical called ethylene. This chemical indicates that the plant needs to increase cell growth or take other measures against the perceived stressor. Scientists measured levels of ethylene released from stressed plants by “listening” to them using lasers until a certain frequency was measured.

While this research shows that plants might have a stress-avoidance response, it is quite a stretch to refer to this as “pain.” It is even more erroneous to equate this response with the pain suffered by animals and human beings. Plants lack nerve endings, brains, hormones, and other structures that would allow them to experience pain. They also lack the ability to move away from sources of stress, an evolutionary trait linked with the ability to feel pain.

 

[HellRazor]

Oh and just another thought making abortions illegal would infringe on the womens right to freedom while keeping abortions legal does not infringe on any American citizens rights sense the United States Government refuses to give citizenship to anyone if there not born yet

Good point, and it sums up pretty well why I am against individuals in this country imposing their moral beliefs on others by trying to get laws passed.

 

[WarAngel]

So let's all go out and have an abortion and rectify the mistake so we can all go out and make the same mistake again and again and again?

No one does that. The only thing I think is appropriate to say to you at this point is fuck off. So, fuck off. That or actually post arguments instead of this crap. You could at least quote the Bible, even though it never mentions abortion or even the idea that God has a hand in the process of womb development for all humans.

 

[Nevaeh the Genie]

to grey of an area......didn't vote. it all depends on the situation and SO MANY other things could be involved. cant just say yes i am for it or no i am against it. but one thing for sure a person or person(s) should have to go through counseling that expresses every option without leaning towards one side or the other before making a decision. this is one topic that so many take to the extreme and just like with anything education is the best medicine.

 

[InOverMyHead]

A LIST OF MAJOR PHYSICAL SEQUELAE RELATED TO ABORTION 1
​

DEATH: The leading causes of abortion related deaths are hemorrhage, infection, embolism, anesthesia, and undiagnosed ectopic pregnancies. Legal abortion is reported as the fifth leading cause of maternal death in the United States, though in fact it is recognized that most abortion related deaths are not officially reported as such.(2)

BREAST CANCER: The risk of breast cancer almost doubles after one abortion, and rises even further with two or more abortions.(3)

CERVICAL, OVARIAN, AND LIVER CANCER: Women with one abortion face a 2.3 relative risk of cervical cancer, compared to non-aborted women, and women with two or more abortions face a 4.92 relative risk. Similar elevated risks of ovarian and liver cancer have also been linked to single and multiple abortions. These increased cancer rates for post-aborted women are apparently linked to the unnatural disruption of the hormonal changes which accompany pregnancy and untreated cervical damage.(4)

UTERINE PERFORATION: Between 2 and 3% of all abortion patients may suffer perforation of their uterus, yet most of these injuries will remain undiagnosed and untreated unless laparoscopic visualization is performed.(5) Such an examination may be useful when beginning an abortion malpractice suit. The risk of uterine perforation is increased for women who have previously given birth and for those who receive general anesthesia at the time of the abortion.(6) Uterine damage may result in complications in later pregnancies and may eventually evolve into problems which require a hysterectomy, which itself may result in a number of additional complications and injuries including osteoporosis.

CERVICAL LACERATIONS: Significant cervical lacerations requiring sutures occur in at least one percent of first trimester abortions. Lesser lacerations, or micro fractures, which would normally not be treated may also result in long term reproductive damage. Latent post-abortion cervical damage may result in subsequent cervical incompetence, premature delivery, and complications of labor. The risk of cervical damage is greater for teenagers, for second trimester abortions, and when practitioners fail to use laminaria for dilation of the cervix.(7)

PLACENTA PREVIA: Abortion increases the risk of placenta previa in later pregnancies (a life threatening condition for both the mother and her wanted pregnancy) by seven to fifteen fold. Abnormal development of the placenta due to uterine damage increases the risk of fetal malformation, perinatal death, and excessive bleeding during labor.(8)

HANDICAPPED NEWBORNS IN LATER PREGNANCIES: Abortion is associated with cervical and uterine damage which may increase the risk of premature delivery, complications of labor and abnormal development of the placenta in later pregnancies. These reproductive complications are the leading causes of handicaps among newborns.(9)

ECTOPIC PREGNANCY: Abortion is significantly related to an increased risk of subsequent ectopic pregnancies. Ectopic pregnancies, in turn, are life threatening and may result in reduced fertility.(10)

PELVIC INFLAMMATORY DISEASE (PID): PID is a potentially life threatening disease which can lead to an increased risk of ectopic pregnancy and reduced fertility. Of patients who have a chlamydia infection at the time of the abortion, 23% will develop PID within 4 weeks. Studies have found that 20 to 27% of patients seeking abortion have a chlamydia infection. Approximately 5% of patients who are not infected by chlamydia develop PID within 4 weeks after a first trimester abortion. It is therefore reasonable to expect that abortion providers should screen for and treat such infections prior to an abortion.(11)

ENDOMETRITIS: Endometritis is a post-abortion risk for all women, but especially for teenagers, who are 2.5 times more likely than women 20-29 to acquire endometritis following abortion.(12)

IMMEDIATE COMPLICATIONS: Approximately 10% of women undergoing elective abortion will suffer immediate complications, of which approximately one-fifth (2%) are considered life threatening. The nine most common major complications which can occur at the time of an abortion are: infection, excessive bleeding, embolism, ripping or perforation of the uterus, anesthesia complications, convulsions, hemorrhage, cervical injury, and endotoxic shock. The most common "minor" complications include: infection, bleeding, fever, second degree burns, chronic abdominal pain, vomiting, gastro-intestinal disturbances, and Rh sensitization.(13)

INCREASED RISKS FOR WOMEN SEEKING MULTIPLE ABORTIONS: In general, most of the studies cited above reflect risk factors for women who undergo a single abortion. These same studies show that women who have multiple abortions face a much greater risk of experiencing these complications. This point is especially noteworthy since approximately 45% of all abortions are for repeat aborters.

INCREASED RISKS FOR TEENAGERS: Teenagers, who account for about 30 percent of all abortions, are also at much high risk of suffering many abortion related complications. This is true of both immediate complications, and of long-term reproductive damage.(14)

LOWER GENERAL HEALTH: In a survey of 1428 women researchers found that pregnancy loss, and particularly losses due to induced abortion, was significantly associated with an overall lower health. Multiple abortions correlated to an even lower evaluation of "present health." While miscarriage was detrimental to health, abortion was found to have a greater correlation to poor health. These findings support previous research which reported that during the year following an abortion women visited their family doctors 80% more for all reasons and 180% more for psychosocial reasons. The authors also found that "if a partner is present and not supportive, the miscarriage rate is more than double and the abortion rate is four times greater than if he is present and supportive. If the partner is absent the abortion rate is six times greater." (15)

INCREASED RISK FOR CONTRIBUTING HEALTH RISK FACTORS: Abortion is significantly linked to behavioral changes such as promiscuity, smoking, drug abuse, and eating disorders which all contribute to increased risks of health problems. For example, promiscuity and abortion are each linked to increased rates of PID and ectopic pregnancies. Which contributes most is unclear, but apportionment may be irrelevant if the promiscuity is itself a reaction to post- abortion trauma or loss of self esteem.

 

[HellRazor]

A LIST OF MAJOR PHYSICAL SEQUELAE RELATED TO ABORTION 1
​

DEATH: The leading causes of abortion related deaths are hemorrhage, infection, embolism, anesthesia, and undiagnosed ectopic pregnancies. Legal abortion is reported as the fifth leading cause of maternal death in the United States, though in fact it is recognized that most abortion related deaths are not officially reported as such.(2)

BREAST CANCER: The risk of breast cancer almost doubles after one abortion, and rises even further with two or more abortions.(3)

CERVICAL, OVARIAN, AND LIVER CANCER: Women with one abortion face a 2.3 relative risk of cervical cancer, compared to non-aborted women, and women with two or more abortions face a 4.92 relative risk. Similar elevated risks of ovarian and liver cancer have also been linked to single and multiple abortions. These increased cancer rates for post-aborted women are apparently linked to the unnatural disruption of the hormonal changes which accompany pregnancy and untreated cervical damage.(4)

UTERINE PERFORATION: Between 2 and 3% of all abortion patients may suffer perforation of their uterus, yet most of these injuries will remain undiagnosed and untreated unless laparoscopic visualization is performed.(5) Such an examination may be useful when beginning an abortion malpractice suit. The risk of uterine perforation is increased for women who have previously given birth and for those who receive general anesthesia at the time of the abortion.(6) Uterine damage may result in complications in later pregnancies and may eventually evolve into problems which require a hysterectomy, which itself may result in a number of additional complications and injuries including osteoporosis.

CERVICAL LACERATIONS: Significant cervical lacerations requiring sutures occur in at least one percent of first trimester abortions. Lesser lacerations, or micro fractures, which would normally not be treated may also result in long term reproductive damage. Latent post-abortion cervical damage may result in subsequent cervical incompetence, premature delivery, and complications of labor. The risk of cervical damage is greater for teenagers, for second trimester abortions, and when practitioners fail to use laminaria for dilation of the cervix.(7)

PLACENTA PREVIA: Abortion increases the risk of placenta previa in later pregnancies (a life threatening condition for both the mother and her wanted pregnancy) by seven to fifteen fold. Abnormal development of the placenta due to uterine damage increases the risk of fetal malformation, perinatal death, and excessive bleeding during labor.(8)

HANDICAPPED NEWBORNS IN LATER PREGNANCIES: Abortion is associated with cervical and uterine damage which may increase the risk of premature delivery, complications of labor and abnormal development of the placenta in later pregnancies. These reproductive complications are the leading causes of handicaps among newborns.(9)

ECTOPIC PREGNANCY: Abortion is significantly related to an increased risk of subsequent ectopic pregnancies. Ectopic pregnancies, in turn, are life threatening and may result in reduced fertility.(10)

PELVIC INFLAMMATORY DISEASE (PID): PID is a potentially life threatening disease which can lead to an increased risk of ectopic pregnancy and reduced fertility. Of patients who have a chlamydia infection at the time of the abortion, 23% will develop PID within 4 weeks. Studies have found that 20 to 27% of patients seeking abortion have a chlamydia infection. Approximately 5% of patients who are not infected by chlamydia develop PID within 4 weeks after a first trimester abortion. It is therefore reasonable to expect that abortion providers should screen for and treat such infections prior to an abortion.(11)

ENDOMETRITIS: Endometritis is a post-abortion risk for all women, but especially for teenagers, who are 2.5 times more likely than women 20-29 to acquire endometritis following abortion.(12)

IMMEDIATE COMPLICATIONS: Approximately 10% of women undergoing elective abortion will suffer immediate complications, of which approximately one-fifth (2%) are considered life threatening. The nine most common major complications which can occur at the time of an abortion are: infection, excessive bleeding, embolism, ripping or perforation of the uterus, anesthesia complications, convulsions, hemorrhage, cervical injury, and endotoxic shock. The most common "minor" complications include: infection, bleeding, fever, second degree burns, chronic abdominal pain, vomiting, gastro-intestinal disturbances, and Rh sensitization.(13)

INCREASED RISKS FOR WOMEN SEEKING MULTIPLE ABORTIONS: In general, most of the studies cited above reflect risk factors for women who undergo a single abortion. These same studies show that women who have multiple abortions face a much greater risk of experiencing these complications. This point is especially noteworthy since approximately 45% of all abortions are for repeat aborters.

INCREASED RISKS FOR TEENAGERS: Teenagers, who account for about 30 percent of all abortions, are also at much high risk of suffering many abortion related complications. This is true of both immediate complications, and of long-term reproductive damage.(14)

LOWER GENERAL HEALTH: In a survey of 1428 women researchers found that pregnancy loss, and particularly losses due to induced abortion, was significantly associated with an overall lower health. Multiple abortions correlated to an even lower evaluation of "present health." While miscarriage was detrimental to health, abortion was found to have a greater correlation to poor health. These findings support previous research which reported that during the year following an abortion women visited their family doctors 80% more for all reasons and 180% more for psychosocial reasons. The authors also found that "if a partner is present and not supportive, the miscarriage rate is more than double and the abortion rate is four times greater than if he is present and supportive. If the partner is absent the abortion rate is six times greater." (15)

INCREASED RISK FOR CONTRIBUTING HEALTH RISK FACTORS: Abortion is significantly linked to behavioral changes such as promiscuity, smoking, drug abuse, and eating disorders which all contribute to increased risks of health problems. For example, promiscuity and abortion are each linked to increased rates of PID and ectopic pregnancies. Which contributes most is unclear, but apportionment may be irrelevant if the promiscuity is itself a reaction to post- abortion trauma or loss of self esteem.

So your arguement against abortion is that it might cause health problems for the mother?

Awww, that's so sweet of you to be so concerned!

 

[Puron1794]

The source of the info would be nice..as would a list of who did the research mentioned, and who funded it.

It's "amazing" how research results are often in direct correlation to the interests of those who funded the research.

The only credible research results, in my opinion, are those that either receive no funding from either side of a debate, or those that receive equal funding from both sides.

 

[WarAngel]

A LIST OF MAJOR PHYSICAL SEQUELAE RELATED TO ABORTION 1
​

DEATH: The leading causes of abortion related deaths are hemorrhage, infection, embolism, anesthesia, and undiagnosed ectopic pregnancies. Legal abortion is reported as the fifth leading cause of maternal death in the United States, though in fact it is recognized that most abortion related deaths are not officially reported as such.(2)

BREAST CANCER: The risk of breast cancer almost doubles after one abortion, and rises even further with two or more abortions.(3)

CERVICAL, OVARIAN, AND LIVER CANCER: Women with one abortion face a 2.3 relative risk of cervical cancer, compared to non-aborted women, and women with two or more abortions face a 4.92 relative risk. Similar elevated risks of ovarian and liver cancer have also been linked to single and multiple abortions. These increased cancer rates for post-aborted women are apparently linked to the unnatural disruption of the hormonal changes which accompany pregnancy and untreated cervical damage.(4)

UTERINE PERFORATION: Between 2 and 3% of all abortion patients may suffer perforation of their uterus, yet most of these injuries will remain undiagnosed and untreated unless laparoscopic visualization is performed.(5) Such an examination may be useful when beginning an abortion malpractice suit. The risk of uterine perforation is increased for women who have previously given birth and for those who receive general anesthesia at the time of the abortion.(6) Uterine damage may result in complications in later pregnancies and may eventually evolve into problems which require a hysterectomy, which itself may result in a number of additional complications and injuries including osteoporosis.

CERVICAL LACERATIONS: Significant cervical lacerations requiring sutures occur in at least one percent of first trimester abortions. Lesser lacerations, or micro fractures, which would normally not be treated may also result in long term reproductive damage. Latent post-abortion cervical damage may result in subsequent cervical incompetence, premature delivery, and complications of labor. The risk of cervical damage is greater for teenagers, for second trimester abortions, and when practitioners fail to use laminaria for dilation of the cervix.(7)

PLACENTA PREVIA: Abortion increases the risk of placenta previa in later pregnancies (a life threatening condition for both the mother and her wanted pregnancy) by seven to fifteen fold. Abnormal development of the placenta due to uterine damage increases the risk of fetal malformation, perinatal death, and excessive bleeding during labor.(8)

HANDICAPPED NEWBORNS IN LATER PREGNANCIES: Abortion is associated with cervical and uterine damage which may increase the risk of premature delivery, complications of labor and abnormal development of the placenta in later pregnancies. These reproductive complications are the leading causes of handicaps among newborns.(9)

ECTOPIC PREGNANCY: Abortion is significantly related to an increased risk of subsequent ectopic pregnancies. Ectopic pregnancies, in turn, are life threatening and may result in reduced fertility.(10)

PELVIC INFLAMMATORY DISEASE (PID): PID is a potentially life threatening disease which can lead to an increased risk of ectopic pregnancy and reduced fertility. Of patients who have a chlamydia infection at the time of the abortion, 23% will develop PID within 4 weeks. Studies have found that 20 to 27% of patients seeking abortion have a chlamydia infection. Approximately 5% of patients who are not infected by chlamydia develop PID within 4 weeks after a first trimester abortion. It is therefore reasonable to expect that abortion providers should screen for and treat such infections prior to an abortion.(11)

ENDOMETRITIS: Endometritis is a post-abortion risk for all women, but especially for teenagers, who are 2.5 times more likely than women 20-29 to acquire endometritis following abortion.(12)

IMMEDIATE COMPLICATIONS: Approximately 10% of women undergoing elective abortion will suffer immediate complications, of which approximately one-fifth (2%) are considered life threatening. The nine most common major complications which can occur at the time of an abortion are: infection, excessive bleeding, embolism, ripping or perforation of the uterus, anesthesia complications, convulsions, hemorrhage, cervical injury, and endotoxic shock. The most common "minor" complications include: infection, bleeding, fever, second degree burns, chronic abdominal pain, vomiting, gastro-intestinal disturbances, and Rh sensitization.(13)

INCREASED RISKS FOR WOMEN SEEKING MULTIPLE ABORTIONS: In general, most of the studies cited above reflect risk factors for women who undergo a single abortion. These same studies show that women who have multiple abortions face a much greater risk of experiencing these complications. This point is especially noteworthy since approximately 45% of all abortions are for repeat aborters.

INCREASED RISKS FOR TEENAGERS: Teenagers, who account for about 30 percent of all abortions, are also at much high risk of suffering many abortion related complications. This is true of both immediate complications, and of long-term reproductive damage.(14)

LOWER GENERAL HEALTH: In a survey of 1428 women researchers found that pregnancy loss, and particularly losses due to induced abortion, was significantly associated with an overall lower health. Multiple abortions correlated to an even lower evaluation of "present health." While miscarriage was detrimental to health, abortion was found to have a greater correlation to poor health. These findings support previous research which reported that during the year following an abortion women visited their family doctors 80% more for all reasons and 180% more for psychosocial reasons. The authors also found that "if a partner is present and not supportive, the miscarriage rate is more than double and the abortion rate is four times greater than if he is present and supportive. If the partner is absent the abortion rate is six times greater." (15)

INCREASED RISK FOR CONTRIBUTING HEALTH RISK FACTORS: Abortion is significantly linked to behavioral changes such as promiscuity, smoking, drug abuse, and eating disorders which all contribute to increased risks of health problems. For example, promiscuity and abortion are each linked to increased rates of PID and ectopic pregnancies. Which contributes most is unclear, but apportionment may be irrelevant if the promiscuity is itself a reaction to post- abortion trauma or loss of self esteem.

And that still proves what about abortion? Women are not retarded (except for, apparently, yourself), and can make their own health decisions.

Anyway, I think the next argument on your list will probably (and hopefully) be quoting the Bible to show that God is involved in the fetal process. I can't wait to show you how wrong that is with the lovely religious knowledge Jesuit education left me.

 

[Kamuflaro]

jeez and you quote that propaganda and make the page long... thanks a lot /sarcasm

 

[Puron1794]

Randomly noted: I was watching a show, on the discovery channel, about different types of multiple births (twins,identical,non identical,triplets,quads,etc.). It showed development of the various types from the time of fertilization up until the actual birth (kinda interesting actually).

Anyway, they said that on about day 23 ( I think it, don't quote me on that) a cluster of the developing cells spontaneously "convulses" and the immediately surrounding cells follow suit, thus the first heartbeat and then forming into the heart itself.

It got me thinking about this thread and the broader debate of when life begins. I think if you have to pinpoint it to a moment, it would be when the heart (or heart cells, whichever) starts to beat. Especially since we consider life to end when the heart stops beating (and can't be restarted).

This is in no way a reflection of my personal opinions of abortion, one way or the other. Simply food for thought.