THE DEATH PENALTY -- Are you pro or against it?

[Medjai]

Wow, you still have failed to realize that I am merely manipulating you via emotions by making you defensive and thus you fear. Fear leads to hatred etc... I really am joking except its not in a way intended to humor anyone but me. I am not going to argue my sincerity towards these jests as it is pointless. Secondly, if Alejandro thought of your stupidity as unsuitable for public discussion I'm sure he would have simply sent you a PM regarding thereof. I understand that you are unable to grasp the concept of my cynical humor as it is obviously beyond your comprehension. Don't bother arguing as this discussion is going no where near a productive means and is merely a mute point. You were merely a victim in one of my mind games. Its sad that you fell for it with such ease, yet it confirms my suspicion that some people can't see the right answer even when it is presented in front of their very eyes. Don't worry Ratfink, I won't target you in any of my future psychological meddling as I have already concluded that you are very susceptible to such actions and I enjoy a challenge. As towards my hostility in conviction with you to which you have become so obsessed as to believ in it. I have no personal quarrel with you, though because of my cruel humor you may now have one with me. I sincerely hope you don't have such a jest with me as it will solve nothing. If however my mental game has influenced you so deeply as to becomoe obsessed with such nonsense than I can truely say you are a very easily manipulated and that is a shame. The alternative to this constant bickering is that this matter is nullified and such giving us both the oppurtunity to be more productive in other more important matters. Everyone is a prisoner to their own mind, and no others. I have merely questioned and critiqued your rationale to the most analytical point of view and you consider it hostile and have become defensive. You need to lighten up and accept that you have merely been a variable in a practical joke of which you were never intended to know existed. I teased you loke a boy teases his dog, waving a treat, then pulling it away just before the dog can grasp it. To the dog, the boy is being cruel. To the boy, he is just playing with his dog. The reason the dog is angered is because he is dealing with a superior intellect. I am not saying you are a dog, I am merely showing you that everything can be viewed from several perspectives. Without such alternate perspectives one is unable to compare and thus unable to judge. I am not sorry for teasing you, I have no need to be as you are too much of an intellectualy challenged person who views pride over the attainment of knowledge to admit that you have merely fallen for a joke. Of course, I could be wrong, maybe you will have the balls to admit this. Only one person has ever been able to stop my meddling at the start. That person did it by responding to my critique with one simple answer. "Medjai, you seem to be giving me bait so that I may argue as though it will give you some kind of feeling of superiority, if this is the case I am not going to let you toy with my mind an emotions, so please stop badgering me"

This was on a different forum site, I immediately stopped badgering this person. Me and this person are now friends on that forum. I like people who are perceptive intellectuals and are able to recognize things as they are without warping the reality of the matter. Just ask me to stop without being ruse Ratfink and I will gladly stop. The ball is in your court, I merely await your next move as it will decide the game. So please, show me that I am wrong and that you are in fact a decent intellectual person with enough humility to admit you have been tricked into playing a game of which he did not even realize he was participating in. At the beginning of this post I called you some names, I did not mean them and in fact only wrote them to see if you would read this far down. If you respond in regards to those names it will be quite obvious that you didn't read my entire post. You seem of at least an average intellect yet you are very easy to manipulate, I am telling you this in an informative manner so that you may accept the truth and correct it. Hopefully you will be able to look at this joke from my point of view, if you are able to I'm sure you will find it very amusing.

Whether or not you believe any of this is irrelevant. If you believe a rock is in fact a dog, the rock is still a rock and you would be incorrect, however after it is pointed out to you that the rock is no dog and is in fact a rock, you should be able to accept your initial perception as flawed and illogical.

You can become obsessed with trivial matters, even I have done such things in the past. Once you realize that which you have been involved in is not important, don't take it so seriously.

By the way, I am sincerely wondering where you got the idea for yur name "ratfink"

I mean that in the least offensive way possible, I truely am intrigued by such a name, what gave you the inclanation as to make your name as such. What does Fink abbreviate or mean?

 

[haleyviperx]

Eye for eye, tooth for tooth. It's primitive.

Stop about thinking what death penality should be in your country. Think about the way it actually is. Look at the numbers! (races, kills beside doubts, exornomortions etc.)

You mean to tell me.... you think we're doing america justice by doing the same thing they are being executed for? We are killing killers. That makes us killers. All of us.

 

[ShamroGod]

PRO

If someone wants to commit a crime. Gas,fry,hang,shoot,gut,bang .. ok you get my point..

Deal with em!

You mean to tell me.... you think we're doing america justice by doing the same thing they are being executed for? We are killing killers. That makes us killers. All of us.

Whoa now I say Whoa now.. :shock:

What do you want to do make us pay for a killer to have a warm place to stay.. a bar of coap to drop for fun.. a meal to eat everynight after he's gone and ruined some poor innocent familys lives?

As the Wiseman said DONT KILL KILLERS! Damn why don't we put them in a mansion and pamper their ass with a silk rag.. no no not tissue paper that'd be injustified.

 

[Medjai]

First of all, that is a very hard thing to argue "killing killers is still murder" is a strong concept and dificult to address so kudos to you on that.

The sad truth is, if a murderer is aware of the law, he is openly putting himself at risk by killing someone.

By executing murderers we rid the world of a threat. It is the same as going to war, either they die or we die. I would rather kill a murderer than an innocent man. We are at war with criminals whether you realize it or not. In war there are casualties, there is no avoiding this. If a murderer is in prison for life, and there is no chance for parole what detours him from killing others. You would be a hypocrite if you claimed he would only kill other prisoners as you are arguing for the life of the worst kind of prisoner already. When someone is sentenced to death they are put in solitairy confinement so that they have no way of injuring anyone but themselves. Yet those sentenced to life often have the same if not more privelages than other prisoners because they become what are known as "trustees". If they kill another man there is no way to punish them. What will we say to them, "oh, you have two life sentences now!"

 

[Lost User]

Nah if he commits a sceond murder in prison - out of what reasons ever.- altough technically also very difficult. then put him in an isolation cell for the rest. If you understand anything about the nature of a human beeing, beeing seperated is actually a very hard punishment.

Look in every prison they have their way to punish the prisoners that don't work with the system, (now for smaller things than murder) other ways than just to enlarge their time.

For the war with criminals, well every country has done some crime her and there. America, especially america is no exception to that. The difference here at the war is your not even killing the criminal, your killing the innocent. Thousends! For a man that is in power, altough due to our fault!

Also you suppose that murders are pure evil and always will become again murders. Well this is not true. Murder is also a fact of outher influence. Think of all the legal murderes that exist! Again the people executing a death penality are murderes themselfs, but acted on state order.

Or soldiers also kill other people. On order.

 

[Lost User]

Re: PRO

What do you want to do make us pay for a killer to have a warm place to stay.. a bar of coap to drop for fun.. a meal to eat everynight after he's gone and ruined some poor innocent familys lives?

If you read the thread, and the information and facts posted you will discover that a death penality costs the state more than keeping a life prisoner.

 

[this.Person=Person.Leet;]

thats because our justice system is fucked up

 

[Lost User]

thats because our justice system is fucked up

On this I can only second you!

 

[Token]

Only way I would ever keep a killer in prison for life is if they are treated like it. They are given more stuff in prison then OTHERS have that are not in prison.


eaither treate the killers like Sh*t or kill the killers.

 

[Lost User]

I don"t know where you guys get the idea that people in prison have it better than outsiders, but well guess it's propaganda.

First of all some american prisons are even on watch list of amnesity international or the WHO for beeing inhuman. Also here the USA lines up in a line equal to china or turkey.

Second are you not always telling that freedom is the highest value you have?
So it's actually already a high punishment taking that away.

The other hand is the rather lousy social system america has that make this sort of paradoxon possible. People in prisons can not suport themselfs, they need to be paid by the state, no matter if they are murders or just in example robbers, thieves, etc.. Or are you suggesting to kill them all in the matter of cost?

Also a death penality verdict is usually kept in prison for 10 years until the killing machine is once again turned on. Isn't it also a paradoxon you have to keep him in best health during this years? He needs to get all medical heathcare during this time. So hes healthy and kicking so we can have our fun when killing him?

 

[Medjai]

Some prisons have shittuy conditions Knox, but most have great conditions. My step father works at the local prison and so I have much insight on this.

 

[Token]

Knox you dont know jack **** get real. You do not live in America you do not know how things are runned. You go by what you think is right and when someone says your not you get mad. Guess what your not right 100% of the time. I know how prisons are like I have my fathers friend who works as a guard.

 

[Medjai]

Token woah, that is totally uneccassary, don't be arrogant (no offense as you don't normally act as such).

He has a right to his opinion an it is a valid one no matter where he lives he is still a human being with just as much insight as any of us.

Knox, don't pay attention to any flamers that come around, I won't agree with them or even take them seriously and you shoudn't either so I will get back to our discussion now.

I have a simple hypothetical question that you don't even answer just think about it.
Lets say a murderer comes to your house points a gun at your head, and you point one at his. You then get a message from God saying this man will kill you in ten seconds and you must pull the trigger or you will die and he will live. Better yet, as you may be sacrificial, lets say you have a daughter and hes pointing the gun at her head while you point yours at his and god tells you he will pull the trigger in 10 seconds. Would you not pull the trigger before he killed her? If you would, does this then make you a vile murderer who's crime is just as horrible as that of which he was about to commit to your innicent daughter?

In executing murderers we merely stop them from killing innocent people. It is the same concept to a lesser degree. I understand that they are still people but some people are just unable to co-exist with others in a safe manner. If a murderer was turned temporarily insane once, who's to say it won't happen again?

Knox, you have made excellent points throughout this post, in fact you have been the only one on this forum actually to stay on topic in any of my threads.
No matter if my beliefs differ from yours, I still respect you deeply. So kudos, and hopefully Token realizes that flaming is never going to prove your point. I have learned that the hard way as I admit I have flamed innapropriately myself at times. Well I have to go so hope to hear from you knox.

 

[Token]

well hes acting like he knows everything when he doesnt. He does not live in the USA he does not know what the prisons are like in America. He does not see anything that happends in America because he is not in America.

 

[Token]

Dont get me wrong he has his own thoughts and so on, but he doesnt know what hes talking about when it comes to stuff that I see around me in person.

 

[Lost User]

Token you see _every_ prison in the USA around you? There are a lot differents, and as I told some of them are on the watch list.

 

[Lost User]

Medjay for your situation, well first I don't think that such god exists. (I do not discuss here if god exists at all) but one that does tell you he will pull the trigger, I would say such reason would rather come from the devil.

Second shooting him will not help, as this is the sure way to kill your daughter, so I guess in reality it is the devil speaking to you.

I am no medical but even beeing shot in the head you are very likely to have enough power to counter pull a triger, no?

Next yes murderes need to be hindered to murder again, and well guess what, life sentence does that. Look again you guys are always supposing that there are mad-mans that will kill everything at sight. I guess this beliefe may origin from all of our own expierences in this first person shooter games. Thats not the case. People murder because there is something wrong in them, either they have some sort of psychological problem, or an educational. Meaning to say because he murdered his wife, he will kill everybody in prison during life sentence with his plastic fork is hypocrite.

 

[Medjai]

Excellent point Knox.

Yet I don't play first person shooters as they are very boring to me.

It was a hypothetical situation, i meant, what if you knew for sure that you coulds stop the man from killing your daughter and the only way to do it was to kill him. Of course it is not logical it is a generality.

It is intended to show you my reasoning in not considering those who induce the death penalty are not the same kind of murderer as the criminally inducted one are.

I am not intending to say that all murderers will be ravenous fiends who kill everything in site. The fact that they have killed in cold blood shows that they could do it again. Even if it was mental distress that caused them to act as they did, they are still unstable even if they appear not to be.

Would you be willing to consider the death penalty under extreme cases?
Such as mass murder rape scenarios? I am willing to come to an agreement with you. If you will accept that in SOME cases the death penalty is needed I will accept that it should only be for extreme cases.

If the murderers were treated like crap their whole life in prison that would raise the probability of them having an emotional outbreak meaning that the prisoner may attempt to kill another.

I believe that because of this we should give the prisoner really shitty living conditions yet the officers should not abuse him/her.

We can both agree (I hope) that the justice system is flawed massively, yet it still functions and serves its purpose to an extent. Meaning it does stop some crime but definately not all.

Until a better system is developed the death penalty is needed as a last resort. That is my opinion anyways. Of course there are alot of problems with it. The plain truth is, nothing is perfect.

 

[Medjai]

Although he does not see it, he is well informed. I have seen it as I do live in America. The Arizona State prison is a tent prison with no air conditioning for inmates. It get to about 120 farenhieght in the summer in that region.

That is perfect for violent criminals but not for those serving minor felonies. In this way that prison is faulty. The majority of the prisons in the USA have great conditions because of MOA (Mothers of America) and all of their whining.

Token, instead of degrading his views simply voice your own on the subject.

I'm sure Knox will listen as will I.

 

[Lost User]

Also for violant criminals. Remember that also a major purpose of a prison is to reenable the people to insert themselfs in our community when they are through their judgment. Normally it is already difficult enough. If someone say got 5 years for [insert some crime here] and all you do is to torture him 5 years, afterward not help himself, well then he will have not choice but to fall into a crimenal life again.

For example you have to let them watch the news, read a newspaper, to keep themselfs informed, you have to keep the somehow busy on an intelectual level, prepare them on the job that they have to do afterward. If the sociaty makes it impossible of prisioners to job afterward a prison-verdict they will have no choice but to continue their criminal career.

If you want to treat them all in prisons like shit you can also kill everybody for everything. Meaning not just murder but any crime that is punished by imprisonment.