The Nobel Peace Prize

[oiii88]

Imagine this

Climate changes making planet greener
CNN.com - Climate changes making planet greener - Jun. 5, 2003

Yes its a 4 yr old article but relivant none the less

 

[Rosetta]

Oh wow! She understands the concept of greenhouse gases!

Except...humans produce about...what...5% of all greenhouse gases? Including cars, planes, trains, factories and all the other stuff greenies love to rag on.

5%. That's 2% away from margin-of-error nonexistence. So, at absolute most, we produce 8%. At the least, we produce a mere...2%.

Yay simple math.

So basically, the refutation of your "putting it simple" is: Humans don't produce enough carbon dioxide or "greenhouse gas x" to impact the environment substantially.

And "Global Warming" isn't even global. It's hemispheric. The Northern Hemisphere is experiencing a warming trend. The Southern? No, not really.

So the thing is...why is there so much brouhaha about a natural thing? Sure, if it could be proven that "humans are definitely increasing the temperature of the entire globe by 50 degrees per century", THEN we'd have a story. But a regional change of .1 or .2 degrees Fahrenheit is both natural and trivial.

Thank you, go away, silly greenie.

Well at least you read that one, I'll be sure to use short simple analogies that you can understand.

Forget global warming, you wouldn't read a bit of it in the begining I have no desire to waste my breathe/fingers typing, or time explaining some of the concepts that you keep dumbing down and making it sound like it's all some insane scare tactic.

So lets keep this simple. Big cities have a brownish sky. That is not good, it is suppose to be much more blue. Greenies like me enjoy clean water and blue skies. A greenie like me supports other people that want the same things.

The problem is too many people get so worked about the politics of it all that common sense that pollution does cause many problems, this is just a possible problem that it may also be causing.

You believe that I am an alarmist. I am not. I just know that doing something to improve the environment is a very good thing. I support Al Gore, however stop being confused by thinking that I AM Al Gore.

All the political debate lately makes everyone with an opinion in any direction a heated discussion very quickly. You stated earlier that you are against pollution as well. Let's just agree on that and the rest of the crap hardly matters. It's the same goal for different reasons. The reasons don't mean nearly as much as the common idea of cleaning up the way we live.

 

[shrundowr]

Your mom causes global warming.

 

[Courageous]

Carbon Dioxide is the only theory we have to go on that we can change.

That assumes that we ought to. For all you know, in the future they could look back on this period, after having migrated to the equators, and say that we ought to have done things to warm things up more.

C//

 

[bzk90]

yep...in the future they will complain about how we failed to induce a significant enough climate change because of our negligence they will have to suffer the dreadful 4 season year...

it really is a good point though; I love when people think out of the box.

 

[Joeku]

You're all effing ridiculous.

I love it

 

[bzk90]

I just know that I'm going to miss my directv during those millions of years...

 

[crackrat]

So lets keep this simple. Big cities have a brownish sky. That is not good, it is suppose to be much more blue. Greenies like me enjoy clean water and blue skies. A greenie like me supports other people that want the same things.

no offense, but I'm just curious what type of car you drive?
Also honestly have you done anything recently in your life to help pollution problems in you own life or city(voting on issues excluded)?

reason why i ask is that truly you cant expect the govt, or the world to stop these things if you haven't tried. no flame intended.

 

[Courageous]

Also honestly have you done anything recently in your life to help pollution problems in you own life or city(voting on issues excluded)?

Kinda like good ole Al and his consume 10X the power of the average middle class family approach to green living, eh?

C//

 

[oiii88]

But remember its OK for him to do that because he buys wind and solar power electric ) Dunno about you all but i haven't seen any wind farms or solar fields in Tennessee where the mansion is located..

 

[Rosetta]

no offense, but I'm just curious what type of car you drive?
Also honestly have you done anything recently in your life to help pollution problems in you own life or city(voting on issues excluded)?

reason why i ask is that truly you cant expect the govt, or the world to stop these things if you haven't tried. no flame intended.

You're absolutely right and I agree, I can't expect others, govt or anyone to try and do something if I don't.

I don't have a car, but if I had the choice I would take one of those electric babies out for a spin - they are mostly destroyed now - so when I get one it will be a hybrid. But I don't really need one at this time in my life.

And when I do buy my house I plan on throwing a few solar panels on the roof. Just for my own self greedy interests, just like everyone else. It will save me money and it actually does some good.

I do things in the community yes, if by happenstance I see trash in a parking lot as I walk by I pick it up and trash it. I also do recycling. When getting new appliances I look first for the energy efficient ones. Like I did when I got my new washer dryer set a couple years back. I donate to the local park/zoo for clean up projects. I buy those long lasting/low energy light bulbs. I turn the water off when brushing my teeth. It's all in the little things. Which is actually the whole point of the environmental idea.

If and when I was more physically able I would do a lot more camping and I took part in cleaning up campground projects in the National Forest.

When I move back home I plan on helping with the Raptor Rescue center in the summers.

Now before I get flamed, yes I am aware that many things in my life and everyones does include using things that do pollute. But if everyone just made that small effort once a day. It would help things.

That assumes that we ought to. For all you know, in the future they could look back on this period, after having migrated to the equators, and say that we ought to have done things to warm things up more.

I don't know about you, but gas fumes from the stations make me choke. Perhaps it's just because I am physically affected by the environment more than others. Which is honest truth here, I will smell pollution when going through some cities faster than others and I will get physically ill from it. But I do know that because of how much it affects me, it promotes me to make an effort.

It makes a difference now. It makes things nicer in our communities today. It stops pollution that we know is not helping our present situation. Personally I think it's the small changes people can make in the world that matter. And if anyone actually watched Gore's movie to the end, that is his point. Making things nicer today with the small things, will make the future all that much better.

People get lost on the politics of this and forget the message. Smokey the bear had similar agendas, and Earth Day celebrations that use to be very popular had similar agendas. But no one really rags on that.

I hate George Bush, but honestly if he said anything like this I would agree with him on it. Just like I was happy he gave gays and lesbians the right to adopt children near the start of his presidency. The man that says the message one might not like, and one might not like the his practices, but to throw out any possible good that they do is ludicrous.

Kinda like good ole Al and his consume 10X the power of the average middle class family approach to green living, eh?

*Sarcasm*
Yeah no one ever on this planet can't get nailed for something. No scandals anywhere at all if you look for them. People will just stay true to everything.
*Sarcasm Over*

First off the statistic is fucked in comparing it to "the average middle class family". Because quite simply he is not part of that group. Compare it to another big ass house and then lets see how the numbers fly.

But even if you are right and Al Gore is not practicing what he preaches, he is getting a message out world wide to improve things for others and themselves. And that message, the goal of making the world nicer to live in for everyone, is what really matters to me.

To throw out everything because you hate the messenger means you are missing the point.

If you took Al Gore out of it, and the endless tiring debates over global warming out, all that you have left is making the world nicer for today and tomorrow. And that is why I stand by this, and always will.

 

[Rosetta]

But remember its OK for him to do that because he buys wind and solar power electric ) Dunno about you all but i haven't seen any wind farms or solar fields in Tennessee where the mansion is located..

That switch he talks about does exist, and there is wind and solar power in the state. And you don't need a wind turbine out in your back yard in order to use it.

TVA Switch

But I will say again, I agree with the message.

 

[oiii88]

I hate George Bush, but honestly if he said anything like this I would agree with him on it. Just like I was happy he gave gays and lesbians the right to adopt children near the start of his presidency. The man that says the message one might not like, and one might not like the his practices, but to throw out any possible good that they do is ludicrous.

Where i don't agree much with Bush i can say this if you was to do any research on his ranch you would see it operates far more "green" than any of lil al's homes... it was designed to have minimal impact on its surroundings. the professor who designed it used it as a example of modern living in a nature friendly way in his book.

 

[oiii88]

That switch he talks about does exist, and there is wind and solar power in the state. And you don't need a wind turbine out in your back yard in order to use it.

TVA Switch

so this gives him aright to be wasteful with the resource because its carbon free and renewable?

 

[Rosetta]

Alright to say again and again and again if I have to. I agree with the message!

I am done arguing the politics of if we like Al Gore or not. If he is a "hero" or a "cocksucker" or like I believe just a man a human being and all that comes with it - doesn't matter one way or the other. I am just going to have to agree to disagree.

Because of all that mess of if Al Gore is good or bad we lose complete site of the entire point on why he got the prize. He won it because of the message he sent out. The committee chose 2 winners both working on environment, that was obviously their aim for the prize this year. And his message was one that meant something to that committee and to others.

 

[oiii88]

Ill just agree to disagree

 

[Rosetta]

All good with me =]
No hard feelings about this to anyone, this is just a subject of great interest to me. And it's been good learning and hearing other ideas. I love diversity.

 

[Courageous]

Alright to say again and again and again if I have to. I agree with the message!

His message is "holy crap, we have to do something!". I don't really agree. I don't believe we have to do anything, and don't believe that it's at all clear that if we did, things would be for the better.

While I, for one, believe that there are many sensible economic reasons for developing alternative power (most especially nuclear!), this sky is falling hyperbole is more than a little tiresome.

Finally, when you "agree with the message" of a politician, you are--whether you know it or not--starting to talk about the allocation of public resources that are ultimately taken from the labors and resources of your fellow men. When you're talking about allocating the labor and resources of your fellow men, don't expect to easily avoid an argument.

You have every right to expect civility, but no right at all to be free of an argument, except to the extent you "flee the room"... so to speak.

C//

 

[bzk90]

whats the harm in using tons of energy if there is 0 harm in said energy?

hell, I say applaud the man for using so much clean energy...it puts money into the companies providing the energy who put money into the pockets of the people designing/researching the energy.

 

[Rosetta]

His message is "holy crap, we have to do something!". I don't really agree. I don't believe we have to do anything, and don't believe that it's at all clear that if we did, things would be for the better.

While I, for one, believe that there are many sensible economic reasons for developing alternative power (most especially nuclear!), this sky is falling hyperbole is more than a little tiresome.

Finally, when you "agree with the message" of a politician, you are--whether you know it or not--starting to talk about the allocation of public resources that are ultimately taken from the labors and resources of your fellow men. When you're talking about allocating the labor and resources of your fellow men, don't expect to easily avoid an argument.

You have every right to expect civility, but no right at all to be free of an argument, except to the extent you "flee the room"... so to speak.

C//

I didn't expect to avoid an argument, I even said in the last post that it is good to hear other peoples ideas. But I don't think there is anything wrong with disagreeing about it in a civil manner either.

But it got to the point of where I am somehow suppose to prove that a man I don't know personally and have not even spoken with in my life is just squeaky clean with facts and figures that I can find only on the internet and the media? And what's more I am suppose to prove why he won the Nobel Peace price without ever even being in the country where they awarded it, let alone the committee?

I am not campaigning for the guy, there is no reason I need to convince anyone at all of why he is right or wrong. He's not even going to run for President again any time soon and the award has already been given out decided by other people so there really is no reason at all to continue the argument. All of it is a moot point.

I believe he deserved, others do not, it's pointless. All good. I am not the kind of person you assume me to be. I think it's not worth flame wars on a forum that is sensitive to politics right now.

I find it much more worth my time to go out into the world and act on what I believe. Not banter back and forth when it is very clear that no matter what anyone says on any side of the matter they are sticking to whatever side they have made their mind up about. That's all fine and good, life your life your way and I will live mine.