Microsoft makes Visual Studio Express Free!!!

[yarex]

Industry standart? LOL

Microsoft changes his politics every quartal and brings something new every 2 years.

Am not against evolution or inovation, becouse its something good, but that is improving of existing system that is gettin better and better.

But microshit is creating always something new, but is always the same shitt, that has errors and needs zillions of patches.

The only reason why i like windows products is becouse i can get there variety of good software that isnt availiable on other platforms.

But to get something stable, or software that i run for XXX times and it will still behave the same way and will not require almost no patches, the only way is to get Linux type systems.

The only server choice. (i personally like freebsd)

But again, if there would be better support from 3rd party providers and easier administration, Linux/unix/xxx based systems could easily overcome winX crap.

 

[Slayer706]

Sorry to bump this old topic, but I don't want to waste money without a few more opinions.

I was wondering if there are any big differences between Visual Studio 2005 and Visual Studio Express 2005? A friend of mine told me that Visual Studio Express is the free version they give out, and that it is almost the same as Visual Studio 2005 that costs money. I need to know, because I am about to buy a few books about programming with Visual Studio 2005. I have Visual Studio Express 2005, and need to know if the books would work with it or if I should look at buying a book for C# in general instead...... What do you guys think? One of the books I am buying is C# 2005 For Dummies, incase you guys need more information about what I am buying to tell. Once again, sorry for the month old necro hehe.

 

[Nochte]

Don't buy a book about a compiler until you are fluent in the language.

 

[Slayer706]

The book isn't about the compiler. It is about the language, but it is based around the interface of Visual Studio.
It will say stuff like: "This is available in that menu if you need it.".
So the book is about C#, but it uses Visual Studio to help explain it. Make sense?

 

[TMSTKSBK]

VS 2005 and VS C# Express are pretty similar, with a few less options in Express (der).

I use C# at work and 2005 at home. This is how I know. The interface is entirely the same.

 

[Slayer706]

Yeah, I've decided to buy some of the books. About $70 total, hopefully a good investment. There one or two that I think I will hold off on till I get more experience. After I get competent enough in C# I am going to move on to C++. So far the only C# experience I have is in RunUO, and the only other programming language I know is Dev Pascal (most don't even consider it a programming language, but I think it qualifies).
I am used to the format for C#, and I am familiar with most of the basic stuff. But I don't know everything it can do yet.

Well I guess this topic can die again unless anyone else has anything to add.

 

[Alis]

allready got it to late long time for micy to realese a new product isnt it

 

[milad]

Hehehe LOOOL.

Have you ever tried to develop a serious project under C#? Of course this depends on what you mean by "serious" too.

I think Java is parsecs forward in comparison to C#. I can enumerate a couple of points:

• Having a few, powerful, totally combinable instruments, bricks, to build whatever system you want.. I totally HATE C#'s delegates and its event system.. these things you can do in Java in such a more readable way.
• Ability to produce documentations in a very simple manner --- where is Javadoc's clone for C#? Ndoc is unfortunately zillions kms behind.. :/ Also, whatever docs you produce, the MSDN style to me totally sucks.. try to take a look at Javadocs and you'll finally see the light.

Apart from all of this, I don't like how RunUo is structured at all.. I think it doesn't have an appropriate architecture, too many classes put into the same namespace with not too much coherency.

The plus of RunUO is, I admit, its good efficiency in implementing UO protocol, but if this protocol was public (and please don't say that telling what packets mean is describing a protocol) one could do it much better in Java.

PS: I also admit that the lack of a nice structure can be also due to C# itself, which permits to put in the same file zillions of classes.

 

[arul]

Hehehe LOOOL.

Probably the most intelligent part of your post, seriously.

Have you ever tried to develop a serious project under C#? Of course this depends on what you mean by "serious" too.

Yes, have you?

I think Java is parsecs forward in comparison to C#. I can enumerate a couple of points:

Yes, parsecs from C#, when it comes to annoaynce of their community.

Having a few, powerful, totally combinable instruments, bricks, to build whatever system you want.. I totally HATE C#'s delegates and its event system.. these things you can do in Java in such a more readable way.

Wow, lemme rephrase your sentence, 'Java OMG r0cks, C# sux I HATE IT!!!!!11'.

Ability to produce documentations in a very simple manner --- where is Javadoc's clone for C#? Ndoc is unfortunately zillions kms behind.. :/ Also, whatever docs you produce, the MSDN style to me totally sucks.. try to take a look at Javadocs and you'll finally see the light.

Yup, everything what MS guys do simply sucks, oh dear... Btw. you're so good with units!

Apart from all of this, I don't like how RunUo is structured at all.. I think it doesn't have an appropriate architecture, too many classes put into the same namespace with not too much coherency.

Restructurize it then, and show up your results, until then, stfu.

The plus of RunUO is, I admit, its good efficiency in implementing UO protocol, but if this protocol was public (and please don't say that telling what packets mean is describing a protocol) one could do it much better in Java.

orly?

PS: I also admit that the lack of a nice structure can be also due to C# itself, which permits to put in the same file zillions of classes.

Zillions, zillions, oh!

 

[milad]

Well I'm sorry to see how personally you take my opinion.. I didn't offend *you* did I?

Is this forum for those who love C# only?

I'm not touched by what you say.. and by the way, yes, I actually happened to develop quite serious things, though not entire game servers.. by "serious" I mean: structured with reasonable design principles taken from software engineering.

I don't see OOP's potential fully used in RunUo architecture and I don't like C# as a language, dunno if I offend you or not. You surely attempted to do that.

Bye

By the way, after decrypting your language, try learn to be polite with ppl around you.

 

[Malaperth]

Well, congratulations, you have managed to pretty much offend everyone here. You have basically said that the RunUO Team's work is crap and you could have done much better. Your mother must be very proud...

 

[milad]

Well.. whatever. I just said my opionion, never happened to you?

Don't you ever receive criticism? It's even useful to make things better you know?..

Anyway I just acknoledge that: you don't like any comment which doesn't agree with yours.

Have fun.. bye.

PS: BTW: don't take into this "conversation" any of my family, thanks.. BYE

 

[Malaperth]

No, I don't usually choose to voice my opinion by telling the people who work quite hard on something for free that their work in inferior to my own. I came from a Java background, but in my opinion, your opinion is based on ignorance and not fact. Java is a wonderful language, even though many here would disagree. C# is also fine, which is evidenced by the very existance of RunUO.

And, it seems that you are the one that cannot stand other opinions that disagree with your own. I have not given any personal insults, but you choose to still continue with insults, how curious.

 

[milad]

No, I don't usually choose to voice my opinion by telling the people who work quite hard on something for free that their work in inferior to my own. I came from a Java background, but in my opinion, your opinion is based on ignorance and not fact. Java is a wonderful language, even though many here would disagree. C# is also fine, which is evidenced by the very existance of RunUO.

And, it seems that you are the one that cannot stand other opinions that disagree with your own. I have not given any personal insults, but you choose to still continue with insults, how curious.

Quote any insult from me please...

I'm a very civil person.. I just said I don't like runuo architecture.. I didn't offend anyone, someone here did that to me, I don't care that much as I don't wanna lower myself to that level, as long as you don't involve my family.

I said two things: one, general, about C#.. I simply don't like it. The other one about RunUo, I don't like the architecture.. is there a rule here which says I have to like everything here? If I'm here it's because I find it interesting to implement a UO server with an object oriented language. I simply don't agree with the architecture and the lack of good documentation.

If one day I implement something and I open my forum, I won't say "stfu" to anyone who says that he/she doesn't like my work.

It this clear, or not?...

AND I didn't say I'd do better than they did.. as I said, criticism can be even used to improve things.

Now, if moderator want to delete my account, I wouldn't really care, if being here implies having to agree with everything you do. But it wasn't me who offended someone.

 

[Courageous]

Having a few, powerful, totally combinable instruments, bricks, to build whatever system you want.. I totally HATE C#'s delegates and its event system.. these things you can do in Java in such a more readable way.

C# delegates are perfectly readable. They are also clear.

While the equivalent in Java does also happen to be readable, it is also diarrhea of the keyboard. To me, the bit of code that is the most succinct and is also equally clear is always the winner. Delagates win in this respect, hands down. The functor objects you are referring to are abortions.

There are parts of runuo that are unclear, follow bad engineering practices, or... pick your criticism. Sure. The fact of the matter is, however, is that the system was put together in a very short period of time by a handful of developers who are or were, some of them, "merely students," and yet the server core itself is able to offer enterprise class service to userbases that run 1,000 active connections almost continuously.

I've read a lot of rapid prototype code, over a 13 year period doing that professionally. For rapid prototyping code, it's better than average, when gauged against the quality of code produced by "professionals".

Which part of runuo's architecture do you think should be different, and why?

As for your C# criticisms, tell us. How much C# have you written? Or is this couch potato programming language criticism at work?

C//

 

[Malaperth]

Apart from all of this, I don't like how RunUo is structured at all.. I think it doesn't have an appropriate architecture, too many classes put into the same namespace with not too much coherency.

That is very much an insult, and yes, it is your opinion. It also insinuates that you are qualified to fully judge the entire architecture of RunUO, which also means that you could have done it better.

I did not tell you to do anything. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mention how insulting your opinion sounds.

I guess I must apologize for bringing your family into this, however, that could, in no way be considered an insult to your mother.

Anyway I just acknoledge that: you don't like any comment which doesn't agree with yours.

And I fail to see how your statement there could be anything but an insult since I made no such insinuation about your comments. I simply pointed out that criticism is useless when it basically says "Your work sucks and I can do it better." which is very much what your 'opinion' said, if not in quote, in meaning.

 

[Courageous]

Well... number one. Neither namespaces nor file organization are "architecture" in any systems engineering methodology I've ever heard of.

C//

 

[arul]

Well I'm sorry to see how personally you take my opinion.. I didn't offend *you* did I?

No, you didn't. You'd have to do much more to offend me

Is this forum for those who love C# only?

Nope. Do you know that .Net isn't only C#? C# is merely a flagship of .net, a decent flagship methinks, but there are much more languages you can utilize for your project ( C++, VB.Net, Chrome, Ruby, Smalltalk, Python and so forth ).

I'm not touched by what you say.. and by the way, yes, I actually happened to develop quite serious things, though not entire game servers.. by "serious" I mean: structured with reasonable design principles taken from software engineering.

It wasn't meant to touch you in any way, I was just stating bare facts with a little dose of sarcasm.

I don't see OOP's potential fully used in RunUo architecture and I don't like C# as a language, dunno if I offend you or not. You surely attempted to do that.

Like I said earlier, you did not offend me, and if you take one's frank treating as an attempt to offend you, I'm sorry then.
Besides, if you say that you don't like C#, how many lines did you write in it? And how many you did in Java?

By the way, after decrypting your language, try learn to be polite with ppl around you.

I swear I'll try! Honestly, I won't...

Just a sidenote, I have defended Java here against people who have been saying that Java must die. If you go back few pages back in this thread, you'll see it, and that's probably why I hate when one bashes a language without any reason.

 

[milad]

What I don't like in runuo is fast prototyping (I've been calling this "extreme programming") seen at work itself. I'm used, expecially dealing with big projects, to see (and do, if I'm the developer):

first: documentation to express what the system should be able to do.

second: a definition of the core (or whatever system you build) interface: not to have to search into the source and see what classes do.. the concept of interface is not so used as for what I've been able to see --- in fact I wouldn't care if they gave the source to public or not, as long as they declared a clear interface you can base upon in order to extend the core appropriately.

third: reasonable use of design patterns and separation rules in deciding what classes do what; for example, if I were to develop a UO server (in Java, maybe?) I'd start off separating the two worlds of architectural domain (see: network connection handling, queuing, maybe even interconnection between servers? anything concerning the physical connection between clients and server and servers between themselves too, if I want), application domain (see: World, Mobiles, Items, etc...), in such a way that they were the most indepependent possible.. for example, given the concept of Mobile, and provided an interconnections between two servers, I'd treat a Mobile from the first as well as one from the second, both being an instance of Mobile.. see what type of criteria I mean here?

fourth: a good beginning from simplicity, instead of wanting to implement everything and at once..

I admit that, and I didn't say the contrary: I'm not a guru in C# nor in RunUo --- and as for the functor objects (which I used to call uses of the command pattern in java) I agree that they are less powerful than delegates, but I can do without delegates very happily anyway using other methods --- but I think I'm expert enough to see if a system is well and orderely implemented or not.

And as for:

I've read a lot of rapid prototype code, over a 13 year period doing that professionally. For rapid prototyping code, it's better than average, when gauged against the quality of code produced by "professionals".

Let me once again disagree.. no offence here, I hope.

Is all of this an insult?...

 

[noobie]

I am quite sure that actually dev team would do lots of enchancements and also design changes if they write it from the scratch. but right now, that kind of work is not very applicable practically. while lots of work need to be done, they also have to consider others works which depend entirely the core classes.