Who's Your Candidate

[Johabius]

JUST BECAUSE FUCKING WIKIPEDIA SAYS IT DOESNT MAKE IT TRUE... WIKIPEDIA IS GARBAGE.

Then perhaps you'll believe the WHO.

WHO | World Health Organization

But let me guess, because it doesn't fall in with your preconceived notion of what is true, you'll just debunk the World Health Organization and call their 'facts' skewed. The fact is: The current system of health care in this country is broken. We need to fix it. That's all there is to it. Quit trying to play politics with the health of our citizens.

 

[Ryan]

Then perhaps you'll believe the WHO.

WHO | World Health Organization

But let me guess, because it doesn't fall in with your preconceived notion of what is true, you'll just debunk the World Health Organization and call their 'facts' skewed. The fact is: The current system of health care in this country is broken. We need to fix it. That's all there is to it. Quit trying to play politics with the health of our citizens.

Oh this is so cute...

I'm not trying to play politics with the health of our citizens but I've got news for you... the solution of universal health care is a bad one... every problem has a solution that is simple, elegant and just flat out wrong... universal health care is a prime example.

Look my Dad is losing his job and health care and without it he'll likely go bankrupt but that doesnt mean that there should be free universal health care.... just like there shouldn't be welfare.

Universal health care will make the quality of those who have good jobs and good benefits go down. I know you've heard it in the past but it's not health care it's death care.

I never once claimed that Health Care in our country is not broken but the fix isnt just giving everyone health care I'm sorry. Look bad things happen to good people it's true but I don't want to foot the bill for everyone's health care while making my health care go to shit. I would rather give my father money than foot your health care bills... sorry.

Read about universal health care here: IPI Publication Full Text - IPI Policy Report - # 187

I can find 100 different articles that will give you 100 different reasons for and against universal health care... bottom line is that it doenst work and it's not the magic bullet that everyone thinks it is.

 

[Kiwi]

Kiwi's platform for 2008: Just get the fuck out of the country ASAP. Who is coming with me?

 

[Johabius]

Oh this is so cute...

I'm not trying to play politics with the health of our citizens but I've got news for you... the solution of universal health care is a bad one... every problem has a solution that is simple, elegant and just flat out wrong... universal health care is a prime example.

Look my Dad is losing his job and health care and without it he'll likely go bankrupt but that doesnt mean that there should be free universal health care.... just like there shouldn't be welfare.

Universal health care will make the quality of those who have good jobs and good benefits go down. I know you've heard it in the past but it's not health care it's death care.

I never once claimed that Health Care in our country is not broken but the fix isnt just giving everyone health care I'm sorry. Look bad things happen to good people it's true but I don't want to foot the bill for everyone's health care while making my health care go to shit. I would rather give my father money than foot your health care bills... sorry.

Read about universal health care here: IPI Publication Full Text - IPI Policy Report - # 187

I can find 100 different articles that will give you 100 different reasons for and against universal health care... bottom line is that it doenst work and it's not the magic bullet that everyone thinks it is.

The truth of the matter is that we have to do something to fix our health care system in this country, I'm sure that you can agree with that. I just read an article by Dr. Ron Paul about lowering the health care costs for Americans. It was written in 2006.

Lowering the Cost of Health Care by Ron Paul

What do you think of that?

 

[Joeku]

Kiwi's platform for 2008: Just get the fuck out of the country ASAP. Who is coming with me?

I'll behave, I promise

 

[HellRazor]

"Universal health care" doesn't necessarily have to mean "free health care". It means "accessable health care", and there are a lot of ways that don't equate to welfare to achieve that.

When there are millions of people who can't afford health insurance - that is a problem.

When people are turned away from hospitals or doctors and are left to wither away or die without treatment because they don't have health insurance, that's a problem.

When people turn a blind eye or don't care because it doesn't personally affect them, or because they don't want to contribute to the general health and welfare of citizens in this country, that's a problem too. Are we really that selfish as a nation?

Sure, there are unfortunate circumstances and we can't solve all the world's problems. But when we have the capability to help our fellow human beings to live a life that is as relatively free of sickness and pain as possible, shouldn't we do that? Isn't that the right thing to do?

As citizens of the wealthiest country in the world I would think that it is our obligation to share that wealth a little to ensure proper health care for ALL citizens, not just the ones who have good jobs. Good jobs aren't equally accessable to everyone in our society, and a large number of businesses offer no health insurance to their employees at all.

So far as "quality of health care" there should be minimum standards of care required from health professionals that are applied to all patients, not just those who can afford to pay for it. But that's an entirely seperate issue.

 

[crackrat]

As citizens of the wealthiest country in the world I would think that it is our obligation to share that wealth a little to ensure proper health care for ALL citizens, not just the ones who have good jobs. Good jobs aren't equally accessable to everyone in our society, and a large number of businesses offer no health insurance to their employees at all.

Just to point out the according to the cia world facts we are number six and have been falling for the last 2 decades. we are the most productive and longest hours of work however.

 

[Ryan]

As citizens of the wealthiest country in the world I would think that it is our obligation to share that wealth a little to ensure proper health care for ALL citizens, not just the ones who have good jobs. Good jobs aren't equally accessable to everyone in our society, and a large number of businesses offer no health insurance to their employees at all.

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT


Look everyone here has the exact same opportunity... I didn't have anything handed to me when I was growing up... my father came from a dirt poor family and worked hard and made something of himself. I couldn't afford to go to college but I educated myself and now I'm doing quite well for myself. I don't want to hear this shit about how everyone can't get a good job because it's a lie. An out and out LIE.

If you want health care don't work for wal-mart. Read some damn books and learn some skills. Get into a trade and work your way up and do it the hard way like I did or like my father did. I'm so fucking sick of people who think that just because I made something of myself that I should pay more money in taxes to support those that chose not to make something of themselves. That is COMMUNIST THINKING.

 

[Johabius]

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT


Look everyone here has the exact same opportunity... I didn't have anything handed to me when I was growing up... my father came from a dirt poor family and worked hard and made something of himself. I couldn't afford to go to college but I educated myself and now I'm doing quite well for myself. I don't want to hear this shit about how everyone can't get a good job because it's a lie. An out and out LIE.

Sorry, Ryan, but once again you are dead wrong. I didn't choose to have an aortic dissection back in December of last year. Because of that, and the crappy care that I got at the first hospital I went to, I now have severe nerve damage in my left hip and leg (causing chronic pain, an inability to stand, sit, or walk for any time over about 15 minutes), and am ordered by my doctors to no longer work. If I choose to work, the risk to my health increases exponentially. Therefore, I don't have the same opportunity as others to get a good job. All the education in the world is not going to change the fact that I can no longer work.

 

[kleks7222]

Why are we all fighting the damn plan's been turned down before by American people. What makes anyone so sure it will pass this time?

 

[HellRazor]

Come on now Ryan.

It's not impossible for someone to be born poor and still make something of themselves, I never said it was.

But the odds are stacked severely against that person right from the start and I think statistics would prove that MOST people born to poverty stay in poverty and don't rise to great success in life. And to say that person has the same possibilities of being successful in life as someone like, say, Paris Hilton is just not true. I'll bet Paris Hilton has never been concerned about health care for a single day in her life.

I think your view would be entirely different had things taken a bad turn for you despite all your hard work (and hopefully you also had support from your family, which not everyone has either).

So far as good jobs that provide health care, if there were enough of them to go around and everyone could get one, then this wouldn't even be an issue.

 

[Ryan]

Sorry, Ryan, but once again you are dead wrong. I didn't choose to have an aortic dissection back in December of last year. Because of that, and the crappy care that I got at the first hospital I went to, I now have severe nerve damage in my left hip and leg (causing chronic pain, an inability to stand, sit, or walk for any time over about 15 minutes), and am ordered by my doctors to no longer work. If I choose to work, the risk to my health increases exponentially. Therefore, I don't have the same opportunity as others to get a good job. All the education in the world is not going to change the fact that I can no longer work.

I'm not dead wrong.

I too have servere nerve damage... mine's from fighting in a war in Iraq and a severe spinal injury that I had but I have perm. damage to my nerves for my left arm. I too know what it's like and I too have severe pain that borders on excruciating at times.

I have 3 family members who are in a very same situation as you and cannot work but I still don't think they deserve to get health care out of my tax dollars.

Call me cold hearted but I'm definately not of the opinion that we should take from the able to help those who cannot help themselves. If you're in that situation I'm very sorry but it's not my responsibility to take care of you. If there would have been a need you can be sure I would have defended you when I served this country but I did not take an oath to serve every member of this country that cannot serve themselves.

I find it ridiculous that people expect others to take care of them when they cannot take care of themselves. If your situation is that bad the taxes YOU paid and the Social Security YOU paid should be used to take care of you. Not the money I make. I damn sure would not stand for people raising my taxes to take care of all of the disabled people in this world. Taking food off the plate of my future family to help people who are disabled is just not an option for me.... sorry.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I damn sure am not going to change my opinion... this is basic natural selection at it's finest.

 

[Ryan]

Come on now Ryan.

It's not impossible for someone to be born poor and still make something of themselves, I never said it was.

But the odds are stacked severely against that person right from the start and I think statistics would prove that MOST people born to poverty stay in poverty and don't rise to great success in life. And to say that person has the same possibilities of being successful in life as someone like, say, Paris Hilton is just not true. I'll bet Paris Hilton has never been concerned about health care for a single day in her life.

I think your view would be entirely different had things taken a bad turn for you despite all your hard work (and hopefully support from your family, which not everyone has either).

You're wrong...

If things would have taken a turn for the worst I would have worked harder... I would do whatever it takes to take care of myself and my family and that my friend is a fact.

I would rather DIE than not "make it" in life.

 

[kleks7222]

Come on now Ryan.

It's not impossible for someone to be born poor and still make something of themselves, I never said it was.

But the odds are stacked severely against that person right from the start and I think statistics would prove that MOST people born to poverty stay in poverty and don't rise to great success in life. And to say that person has the same possibilities of being successful in life as someone like, say, Paris Hilton is just not true. I'll bet Paris Hilton has never been concerned about health care for a single day in her life.

I think your view would be entirely different had things taken a bad turn for you despite all your hard work (and hopefully support from your family, which not everyone has either).

Look I'm not rich but, i'm not poor either I'm going to college to earn my degree. I grew up in a home where all your cloths came from goodwill and sometime your mom didn't eat just so you could. We never got any presents for Christmas, we didn't own a car, and our house was run down. Yet I'm feeding my family keeping our health in check and they have an awsome Christmas every year. So I think what Ryan is trying to say is yes you can do better than poor IF YOU APPLY YOURSELF. Which I agree 100% with

 

[HellRazor]

Look I'm not rich but, i'm not poor either I'm going to college to earn my degree. I grew up in a home where all your cloths came from goodwill and sometime your mom didn't eat just so you could. We never got any presents for Christmas, we didn't own a car, and our house was run down. Yet I'm feeding my family keeping our health in check and they have an awsome Christmas every year. So I think what Ryan is trying to say is yes you can do better than poor IF YOU APPLY YOURSELF. Which I agree 100% with

How much do you pay for your health insurance?

 

[kleks7222]

How much do you pay for your health insurance?

Atm about 50 it will jump to 90 soon but, thats ok considering my medications would cost about 4000 a month without insurance.

 

[Ryan]

How much do you pay for your health insurance?

My brother who has no job with health care works 3 jobs and goes to school full time... he makes probably minimum wage all of the jobs and goes to school full time. This is not an easy task but he does it...

He pays 300 dollars per month for his health care.

It works and he's doing just fine.

He works his ass off to have his health care and if he can do it so can the rest of the people in this country... The people that REALLY can't work are few and far between...

We need to stop catering to lazy people (those that could get a job) that's the real fucking problem. We've created a society where we give handout after handout.

It's time that all of that shit stops. It's time that we start focusing on getting rid of the debt this country has, getting rid of the handouts, making education better and moving up in the world.

Quit asking me to foot the bill for lazy fuckers because I refuse to do it.

 

[Ryan]

I personally pay nearly 1000 per month for my health care... and that's a SINGLE PERSON. Am I bitching? Nope I need it... just like car insurance, home owners insurance and the rest of the bullshit I have to spend my money on.

 

[kleks7222]

My brother who has no job with health care works 3 jobs and goes to school full time... he makes probably minimum wage all of the jobs and goes to school full time. This is not an easy task but he does it...

He pays 300 dollars per month for his health care.

It works and he's doing just fine.

He works his ass off to have his health care and if he can do it so can the rest of the people in this country... The people that REALLY can't work are few and far between...

We need to stop catering to lazy people (those that could get a job) that's the real fucking problem. We've created a society where we give handout after handout.

It's time that all of that shit stops. It's time that we start focusing on getting rid of the debt this country has, getting rid of the handouts, making education better and moving up in the world.

Quit asking me to foot the bill for lazy fuckers because I refuse to do it.

agreed I only work 3 days a week I'm going to school full time and volunteer at my church 2 days a week but, I'm still not at full health with my transplant. I'm still getting out there and trying and the end result? A guy with a degree that was below poverty level starting with NOTHING making it and supporting his family with no money worries.

 

[Johabius]

I find it ridiculous that people expect others to take care of them when they cannot take care of themselves. If your situation is that bad the taxes YOU paid and the Social Security YOU paid should be used to take care of you.

You do realize that they don't just hand that money over, don't you? I have been fighting with Social Security for 10 months now. In the meantime, we still have bills to pay, children to feed, rent to pay, food to buy, etc. I guess some of us just believe in helping out our fellow citizens all the time.

What good am I to my family if I am dead?