For Your Consideration

[WarAngel]

It's totally relevant that you're unemployed. You have no experience in dealing with non-English speaking people in a professional setting - a setting where you have obligations to meet because you're being PAID.

I'm not unemployed. You're right though, I haven't had to work with non-English speaking people. But, as I said before, you are being paid to deal with these people. If you don't want to deal with these people, find a job where you aren't required to. If you don't want to do that, then stop complaining about having a job where you deal with people you dislike.

I didn't go to a Spanish-heavy area, they came here. They must learn English. I will not assimilate their culture because they came to our country and refused to gain the most fundamental understanding of our culture.

Oh, but you did go to a Spanish-heavy area. They didn't just show up last week. They've been there for quite awhile, more than likely longer than you've been alive. And what is all of this culture talk? The people living in an area create the culture. If your area contains a Spanish-speaking culture and you don't like that culture, you're in the wrong area. Should we ban Chinatown in cities like San Francisco because it isn't culturally American? Or is that different because YOU aren't working there?

 

[WarAngel]

...or they could make an effort to assimilate and learn English...

True, and I hope that they do make that effort.

 

[PappaSmurf]

I don't blame Australia for what they did, though I wouldn't bring in fear of Terror attacks into the equation, But honestly for a group to decide they want to exclude themselves from the countries laws and live by their own, moral or religious code of conduct is a bomb waiting to happen. It's one thing to allow indigenous peoples to carry on with their customs and way of life as long as it has no major negative impact on the overall society of that country (example: Native Americans, or Aborgional peoples for AU), yet for immigrants or even subsequent generations to come in to any country and expect to be be exempt from the common rule of that country is crazy. While I believe it's fine to allow one to retain his faith or follow his religious law "within" reason I don't think this should be used as a crutch to receive special or different treatment. The US does have an "almost" open immigration status I do not personally wish it to be so we should lock the frickin gates to anyone but tourists, ship all the illegals home in coffins, and cut off all foreign aid, until we can keep peoples and children here from starving on the streets......Sorry just a bit pissed about what the US Congress is planning. But anyways immigrants who enter any country should at the minimum learn the common language of that country, and learn it's basic customs and follow/use them while in public. If they want to sacrifice goats to a flying spaghetti monster or something in the privacy of their own homes or as part of private ceremonies, as long as doing such isn't illegal in that country or a provision is made for their religious group, by the ruling body of that country then fine by all means do it. Otherwise, assimilate or GTFO.

 

[InOverMyHead]

You open a book and it's in spanish. Before you can understand what it says, you have to turn the book upside down before you get to the English part. You go to the store and pick up a can of mixed vegetables. You can't read the ingredients because they are in spanish. You can't understand what's in the can until you turn the can and find the English part.

I don't see these companies going out of their way to put the ingredients in French, Arabic, German, Russian, Vietnamese, Hebrew, Sudanese, Japanese or any other foreign language other than spanish.

The majority of people that live in the United States DO speak English.

The wait to come into this country LEGALLY is only 6 months. Not 6 years or 14 years.

You shouldn't have to speak a foreign language in an English speaking Nation to be able to communicate.

If I were to go to a foreign country..... lets say.... Italy. Don't you think the smart thing to do is learn to speak the language before going there?!

There is an old guy that has lived across the street from me for 30 years. And I know for a fact he's been in this country for at least 50 and he doesn't speak any english. He understands it, he just can't speak it.

The neighbor directly across the street from me has a family with little kids that don't speak english. What's going to happen to these kids when they start going to school?

Even the Iraqy refugees are learning to speak English even though they would like to go back to their country some day, they want to learn the English language.

ACCEPT THE COUNTRY YOU ACCEPTED!!!

 

[4RK3TYP3]

I'm all for immigration, but they damn well better learn my language to live here. If I moved to japan, I sure as hell better learn japanese. "When in rome"

 

[WarAngel]

You shouldn't have to speak a foreign language in an English speaking Nation to be able to communicate.

You don't have to speak a foreign language. Stop over-dramatizing the situation. Where in your daily life do you perform some necessary function yet have to speak a foreign language? Nowhere.

ACCEPT THE COUNTRY YOU ACCEPTED!!!

THEY DO ACCEPT THE COUNTRY THEY ACCEPTED. THEY ARE FUCKING PROUD TO LIVE HERE, THEY JUST DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO LEARN ALL OF OUR FUCKING CUSTOMS BECAUSE THEY CAN HARDLY EVEN EARN ENOUGH MONEY TO SURVIVE. HAVE YOU SEEN THE MINORITY-MAJORITY WEALTH DIVIDE? STOP BEING SUCH A CONCEITED ASSHOLE AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE.

 

[HellRazor]

This is one of the reasons many other nations look at the U.S. as fat, selfish, and arrogant. I find that many other countries are much better at looking at the world more globally. When you are landlocked and surrounded by other countries you tend to learn to get along with other cultures (either that or you end up in a constant state of war, we have some of those too).

It's easy to say "learn my language" but learning a language is not quite as simple as turning a switch, it is very difficult for some people. Especially when you consider that many who come to the United States do so for the opportunity for a better life, many of them are deprived of a simple basic education, let alone instruction on how to speak different languages. I would wager to say that most non-English speakers in the U.S. at least attempt to learn English. But if you are from a culture outside of the U.S. and you have friends or family from that culture, of course you will probably speak the language of your original home. I don't necessarily like that, but I do understand it.

Being an American living in Germany I am totally cogent and respectful of the fact that I am a guest here. I observe as many of the German customs as I am able to and am aware of. I'm sure that I don't know all of the customs and the nuances that come with them. But I learn more every day.

I also speak as much German as I am able to, but the amount I know is very little and pretty simple. I find that the Germans do appreciate the effort tho. It's pretty amusing that most of the Germans speak English as well as German so they probably think of us as kind of stupid since most Americans never bother to learn more than one language.

Anyway, being here really "puts the shoe on the other foot". It helps put things into perspective when you are subject to some of the very same criticisms and prejudices that we have in the U.S.

Now more than ever we are living in a GLOBAL world. Technology and the economy is swiftly breaking down geographic boundries. I think the world (for better or worse) is going to be a much different place in a generation or two.

 

[4RK3TYP3]

You don't have to speak a foreign language. Stop over-dramatizing the situation. Where in your daily life do you perform some necessary function yet have to speak a foreign language? Nowhere.



THEY DO ACCEPT THE COUNTRY THEY ACCEPTED. THEY ARE FUCKING PROUD TO LIVE HERE, THEY JUST DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO LEARN ALL OF OUR FUCKING CUSTOMS BECAUSE THEY CAN HARDLY EVEN EARN ENOUGH MONEY TO SURVIVE. HAVE YOU SEEN THE MINORITY-MAJORITY WEALTH DIVIDE? STOP BEING SUCH A CONCEITED ASSHOLE AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE.

Not to pick at this festering wound...but if they took the time to learn english, they would get better jobs. (English can be learned on-job)

 

[WarAngel]

Not to pick at this festering wound...but if they took the time to learn english, they would get better jobs. (English can be learned on-job)

It's not just a matter of buying an English CD and installing it onto your brain hard drive.

 

[4RK3TYP3]

There are adult learning techniques that have to be employed, but it is possible to learn another language well on in age. My grandpa recently learned how to speak German, so I know it can be done.

 

[Maynza]

you can definately learn the fundementals of a language in less than a year.

 

[TMSTKSBK]

fundamentals, tbh...

 

[InOverMyHead]

THEY DO ACCEPT THE COUNTRY THEY ACCEPTED. THEY ARE FUCKING PROUD TO LIVE HERE, THEY JUST DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO LEARN ALL OF OUR FUCKING CUSTOMS BECAUSE THEY CAN HARDLY EVEN EARN ENOUGH MONEY TO SURVIVE. HAVE YOU SEEN THE MINORITY-MAJORITY WEALTH DIVIDE? STOP BEING SUCH A CONCEITED ASSHOLE AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE.

No one is talking about learning the customs. I am talking about learning the English language.

The illegal aliens don't earn enough because they can't speak English. And if a company knowingly hires an illegal alien and gets caught, that company has to pay a five thousand dollar fine for each illegal alien.

In the city that I live in there were quite a few mexican fast food restaurants. The INS decided to simultaneously raid them. Almost every worker in these restaurants was an illegal alien. Out of 15, there is only one that is still open. The others were shut down and sold so the owner could pay the fines and not go to Federal prison. If that would've happened he would've lost everything, his house, his car, his bank accounts, his businesses....everything. I guess he didn't want to pay that price so he sold off all his restaurants with the exception of one to pay the fines. But, I have to admit...the food was pretty good.

No one answered the question to my earlier post. What happens to these kids that can't speak English when they start going to school?
They are going to have such a disadvantage from the get go.

 

[Maynza]

No one answered the question to my earlier post. What happens to these kids that can't speak English when they start going to school?
They are going to have such a disadvantage from the get go.

No the opposite happens, Just like mixing special needs children in with regular students the class can only move at the pace of the slowest, so it is the more advanced students that get the disadvantages.

 

[WarAngel]

No one is talking about learning the customs. I am talking about learning the English language.

The illegal aliens don't earn enough because they can't speak English. And if a company knowingly hires an illegal alien and gets caught, that company has to pay a five thousand dollar fine for each illegal alien.

In the city that I live in there were quite a few mexican fast food restaurants. The INS decided to simultaneously raid them. Almost every worker in these restaurants was an illegal alien. Out of 15, there is only one that is still open. The others were shut down and sold so the owner could pay the fines and not go to Federal prison. If that would've happened he would've lost everything, his house, his car, his bank accounts, his businesses....everything. I guess he didn't want to pay that price so he sold off all his restaurants with the exception of one to pay the fines. But, I have to admit...the food was pretty good.

No one answered the question to my earlier post. What happens to these kids that can't speak English when they start going to school?
They are going to have such a disadvantage from the get go.

That is the parents' choice. I don't really care what language they speak when they go to school. The education system here sucks so much that it doesn't really matter. We're just churning out a huge group of retards every years. But that's for a different topic.

So anyway, where do you recommend they all learn English as quickly as you are expecting? In Mexico? They leave Mexico because it sucks and they can't learn or go anywhere in life. In the US? They can't speak English when they get here and can't make enough to afford to take the time to learn English, and all the while, people want to alienate them because they can't speak English. It's catch 22 at its best, and getting pissed at them for having a crappy situation just makes it worse.

You also said illegal aliens don't earn enough. Illegal aliens have no business even being here. The only people I am talking about are legal citizens of this country, who have every right to choose what language they want to speak because they are included under our democratic system. If they want to maximize their income while living here, they'll find a way to learn English at a time that is convenient for them.

 

[PappaSmurf]

I would wager to say that most non-English speakers in the U.S. at least attempt to learn English.

I can call BS on that, having worked in a place that was rampant in hiring illegal workers (One of their HR peeps got busted selling fake documents even). Many of the ones that did speak English that I chatted with flat out told me a large majority don't bother learning English because of 2 reasons. They just don't care because they are only here to make as much money as they can and sending it home before getting deported for the free ride home. Secondly because everywhere you go now things are found in both English and Spanish and they don't see a purpose in learning English because they feel it's not necessary. I feel the US should form a stand where by law if You are in the US and working you either A) Must speak, read, and write English, or B) Be enrolled in some type of class to teach you to speak, read, and write English.

Not only is producing documents in multiple languages economically stupid it's environmentally stupid. I've been following the news lately on all the changes that are being proposed to alter the immigration process and add the new "Z" visa, among other things. Those changes alone are going to put a 2.5 trillion dollar strain on the American economy which unfortunately the current legal citizen base will have to pay for thorough taxation. The additional strain on the Welfare and Social Security systems fill finally drive them so far into a bankrupt state that there will be no recovering. I say Screw all the Illegals, America needs to worry about and take care of American's first. I disagree with Foreign Aid while people are homeless, unemployed, and starving here in the US. I disagree with rebuilding of countries we had no business destroying in the first place, while American's are homeless, unemployed, and starving. I say we find the 3 missing Soldier's and get out of Iraq, withdraw all NATO and UN Troops and Fix what's broke at home. Those Soldiers are protecting foreign soil for a foreign nation at the cost of many of their lives, while our own country is slowly being invaded and the government is saying "Amnesty" for them. Already several have been caught crossing the border in possession of badges, and insignia connected to and with the same foreign terrorist sects that we claim to be hunting...I say we're looking in the wrong place.

 

[WarAngel]

I can call BS on that, having worked in a place that was rampant in hiring illegal workers (One of their HR peeps got busted selling fake documents even). Many of the ones that did speak English that I chatted with flat out told me a large majority don't bother learning English because of 2 reasons. They just don't care because they are only here to make as much money as they can and sending it home before getting deported for the free ride home. Secondly because everywhere you go now things are found in both English and Spanish and they don't see a purpose in learning English because they feel it's not necessary. I feel the US should form a stand where by law if your in the US and working you either A) Must speak, read, and write English, or B) Be enrolled in some type of class to teach you to speak, read, and write English.

Not only is producing documents in multiple languages economically stupid it's environmentally stupid. I've been following the news lately on all the changes that are being proposed to alter the immigration process and add the new "Z" visa, among other things. Those changes alone are going to put a 2.5 trillion dollar strain on the American economy which unfortunately the current legal citizen base will have to pay for thorough taxation. The additional strain on the wale fare and Social Security systems fill finally drive them so far into a bankrupt state that there will be no recovering. I say Screw all the illegals, America needs to worry about and take care of American's first. I disagree with foreign aid while people are homeless, unemployed, and starving here in the US. I disagree with rebuilding of countries we had no business destroying in the first place, while American's are homeless, unemployed, and starving. I say we find the 3 missing Soldier's and get out of Iraq, withdraw all NATO and UN Troops and Fix what's broke at home. Those Soldiers are protecting foreign soil for a foreign nation at the cost of many of their lives, while our own country is slowly being invaded and the government is saying "Amensty" for them. Already several have been caught crossing the border in possession of badges, and insignia connected to and with the same foreign terrorist sects that we claim to be hunting...I say we're looking in the wrong place.

HellRazor isn't talking about illegals. You are barking up the wrong tree, and are also extremely militant and scary.

 

[PappaSmurf]

HellRazor isn't talking about illegals. You are barking up the wrong tree, and are also extremely militant and scary.

Legal or Illegal the point stands that as long as the both the Government and businesses make provisions that make it unnecessary for immigrants of any type to function without the necessity of learning the common language of the land a majority will not learn English and thus not be able to fully integrate into American Culture. I don't care what language they speak at home, but in a place of business they should have a working knowledge or be attempting to gain a working knowledge of English in a predominately English Speaking country.


As far as me being scary......well My opinion is this...I joined the Military at 18 right out of school, I went where my country told me and I'm not ashamed of it. But I also remember that when I took the Oath of Enlistment, I swore to uphold and protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies both Foreign and Domestic. These Terror Cells are Foreign enemies, and I do not disagree with hunting them down. But using hunting them down as a crutch to stay in Iraq when the majority of the people we are fighting there are not Enemies of the US but Enemies of the New Iraqi Republic is doing neither. The few listed Terror Cells that have been active there would not have the opportunity to exploit the situation if the US wasn't there to start with.

Now to Illegal immigrants they are felons, by US Federal Law the moment they stepped across the border. It's a sign of how corrupt the Government in this county has become that instead of trying to follow their own laws they would rather change them to "hide" the issue, while putting the American tax payer up to paying for it all. It's a silent war in it's own right and instead of upholding our nations honor, our elected leaders are rolling over and playing dead, every one of them that votes "Aye" on this bill should hang their heads in shame. The US is slowly being annexed from within and our own Government is assisting with it.

 

[HellRazor]

Legal or Illegal the point stands that as long as the both the Government and businesses make provisions that make it unnecessary for immigrants of any type to function without the necessity of learning the common language of the land a majority will not learn English and thus not be able to fully integrate into American Culture.

What provisions? I don't think a few bilingual forms really carry that much impact.

I don't care what language they speak at home, but in a place of business they should have a working knowledge or be attempting to gain a working knowledge of English in a predominately English Speaking country.

Maybe they just don't want to talk to you.

If they can do a job that doesn't require them to speak English, and it doesn't matter to their employers that they can't speak English, then what's your beef? Aside from the fact that you just don't like that they can't speak English.

As far as me being scary......well My opinion is this...I joined the Military at 18 right out of school, I went where my country told me and I'm not ashamed of it. But I also remember that when I took the Oath of Enlistment, I swore to uphold and protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies both Foreign and Domestic. These Terror Cells are Foreign enemies, and I do not disagree with hunting them down. But using hunting them down as a crutch to stay in Iraq when the majority of the people we are fighting there are not Enemies of the US but Enemies of the New Iraqi Republic is doing neither. The few listed Terror Cells that have been active there would not have the opportunity to exploit the situation if the US wasn't there to start with.

Whoah. How did we go from immigration issues to Iraq?

Now to Illegal immigrants they are felons, by US Federal Law the moment they stepped across the border. It's a sign of how corrupt the Government in this county has become that instead of trying to follow their own laws they would rather change them to "hide" the issue, while putting the American tax payer up to paying for it all. It's a silent war in it's own right and instead of upholding our nations honor, our elected leaders are rolling over and playing dead, every one of them that votes "Aye" on this bill should hang their heads in shame. The US is slowly being annexed from within and our own Government is assisting with it.

The US is a nation of immigrants. We annexed it from within when we took it from the native Americans.

 

[HellRazor]

You open a book and it's in spanish. Before you can understand what it says, you have to turn the book upside down before you get to the English part. You go to the store and pick up a can of mixed vegetables. You can't read the ingredients because they are in spanish. You can't understand what's in the can until you turn the can and find the English part.

Welcome to the global economy. Any decent college macroeconomics class will talk about the reasons for this and they have very little to do with immigration.