PappaSmurf;685097 said:
I'm against it for the reason that statistically these people will be a drain on the financial systems in the US. The majority of those that come here illegally haven't the best education and with the way things are in the US now they it's been proven that 54% of them will draw more money from the wale fare system than they pay out in taxes, yet once they hit retirement age they will continue to draw.
By "those people" I am assuming you mean mexicans?
I'd be interested in seeing statistics on recipients of welfare payments. I suspect that recent U.S. citizens are a very small fraction of the overall welfare recipients in the United States and that the vast majority of welfare recipients are people who were born here. Just a hunch, I haven't done research on it.
So far as retirement goes - you have to pay into retirement. Social security is based on earnings averaged over a worker's lifetime.
That's not counting the 2.2 trillion dollars estimated that will be needed to integrate them in to the social security, and other federal systems.
Source please. I find that estimate to be highly inflated. It must be based on some figure like "what if every single illegal resident in the U.S. took amnesty" and then conveniately ignored other financial benefits that would occur on the flip side. Statistics are fun, you can make them read however you like to support your arguement. That's why politicians love them so much.
Outside of that my major reasoning is I disagree with Legal and Illegal Immigration period while the US has a unemployment rate above 2% which it's 4.5% at the moment, and while around 800,000 people are Homeless in the US (a 2006 report showed 744,000) yet 20% of those Homeless actually have Full or Part Time Jobs.
You're assuming that immigration carries a huge impact on employment rates while ignoring all the other factors that influence employment rates. Personally I don't think shutting our borders and denying anyone residency is going to solve domestic problems as wide reaching as unemployment and health care. You are also forgetting that all those immigrants who are supposedly taking all the jobs are also paying taxes.
If your goal is to cut down the population to make more jobs by denying anyone citizenship, why not go the next step and just make it illegal for anyone to have children. We could make it extra contraversial by only allowing those with higher incomes to have children. We could put some armed police at each hospital and abortion clinic to arrest all those who violate the law.
In short, I think the solutions you are offering are not well thought out and based on your emotions over the issue rather than logical outcomes.
If we can't provide and take care of our own then why the hell should we take care of someone else's. If Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, and other Central and South American countries are so bad then they should be fighting to Change their country not turning tail and leaving to take advantage of someone else's. NOTE: I do not consider Legal Immigration as taking advantage, as these people intended to be productive parts of American Society.
But you just said that you were against legal immigration and that they were all taking jobs away from the homeless.
@ WarAngel....DO NOT Ever call me a Bigot or imply that I am a Racist again, nothing can be farther from the truth, as a general rule I get along well and respect people of any Race, and to be honest I find most Hispanics have Values and Ideals, at least in work ethic, closer to my own and tend to get along with them exceptionally well. But I firmly believe the United States should look out in and for the interests of those that are Citizens (either Natural Born, or Naturalized) or Legal Residents first and fore most.
This whole post sends a lot of mixed messages. You say that we should only look out for citizens, but then you also say "those people" shouldn't be allowed to become citizens even if they meet all the criteria for citizenship.
So essentially what I take away from that is that by "citizens" you mean "only people who are already here legally" and that you would like to see us close our borders. Which kinda sorta defeats the whole purpose of having a democracy.
Not to mention it would prevent a lot of very knowledgeable, talented, and patriotic people from becoming U.S. citizens. Some of the most noteworthy people in our history with the greatest achievements were not born in the U.S. Look on any college campus, any hospital, or any technical profession and you'll find a ton of people who immigrated here and became citizens. You seem to think that the majority of immigrants are unemployed bums who only want to steal work from us U.S. bred god fearin' white folk.
But what the hey, we could just wall ourselves in and not let anyone in or out. That worked real well for East Berlin. Of course the economy in Europe was in the crapper until the soviet union collapsed and all the borders came down. Now a euro is worth 25% more than a dollar. Funny how that global economy thing works.
Our Laws say if you sneak into this country you have commented a Felony Crime. If you Commit a Crime you should regardless if the crime is Just or Not be held accountable and responsible for your actions. If I come to your house and Shoot, Maim, Rape, Kill your Wife, Sister, Daughter, Mother, Neighbor's Poodle or what ever I should be held accountable for that crime. There is No Difference, defiance of the Law should result in proper punishment according to that law not Amnesty from Punishment. Letting these peoples get away with a Crime while knowing they have committed what the US considers a Felony, something that would normally block a person from being able to Immigrate to the US is unacceptable. It's like Taking every serial killer in Federal prisons having them pay a Fine and turning them Loose. A Crime regardless of fairness or not is a Crime and should those who commit it should be held accountable.
Yes, the world is either black or white. There is no grey, nor is there a greater good to be served. The law is the law and there is never EVER any deviation from the law.
Of course if the bill passes, it becomes law too.
And comparing someone who is working or residing in the U.S. illegally to a murderer is a piss poor comparison. There are DEGREES of crimes and DEGREES of offenses. So if you are going to make comparisons, at least compare it to something that is within the same ball park.
Btw regardless of how it's worded it's Amnesty they have committed an act that under the current law should block one from entry into the United States even with paying a fine. It's Amnesty because the new rules if passed will supersede the fact they committed what is at this point a crime.
If an amnesty will solve the problem of illegal immigration or even get a large portion of them to become legal (I'm not saying it will) than perhaps the desired result outweighs your zeal to imprison or deport them at taxpayers expense.
Personally I think that is in there to improve the chances of the bill passing so that all the OTHER immigration reforms can be put into place. Its called "compromise".
They could legalize Murder next week but Charles Manson would still be in Jail because he committed the crime while it was illegal
Oh come on. That's like comparing a jaywalker to Jeffrey Dahmer. DEGREES, man. DEGREES.
