The lack of respect shown by so many to us...

[Agetian]

Well, one of my friends wanted to respond to this topic, too, but unfortunately he doesn't know English very well (he's Russian) and he doesn't spend a lot of time in the Internet, either, so he asked me to post the following message. I hope it's OK.

----------- Message from Alex Dolzhenko, Stavropol, Russia ------------
Dear Ryan,
I really admit all the work that you and your team had done. I'd like to say thanks for RunUO. If it hadn't been for you and your project, I would never have started programming and my interest in UO would have been lost some 5-6 years ago. You made it all different, you made an emulator that is unsurpassed right now and that will probably never be surpassed in the future.

I really see and understand the problem that arose in RunUO forums recently. I am ashamed that those people who were the troublemakers on the forum are of the same nationality as I am. I can't say that they act like true Russian people. The stereotype of Russian people here in Russia and in all the nearby "ex-USSR" countries is that of a hospitable, friendly person. In fact, even though I didn't have the chance to browse your forums myself ('cause I don't know English), from what I heard from my friends, your forum felt really "Russian" to me somehow, because it was friendly and hospitable. So, once again, I say that those people are not truly Russian - they are just dorks, and species called "dorks" are common all over the world.

My advice to you would be to keep up the good work and not to stop. I really understand your current condition - I am a teacher in the University myself, and I was in similar (kind of) situations a few times. It really takes you down, depresses you, makes you feel that you want to abandon it all, stop doing whatever you've done for so long. And I can say that those people, seeing your doubt and depression, probably only brag about what they've done. I really don't want you to feel defeated by some dork from Russia and a company of his "supporters" (who either just don't know any better or just have crappy brains). I'd really like to see you recover in the nearest future, I'd like to see you crush all this crap and remove it away from your site, probably banning those people forever and deleting all their posts.

Don't take my words as "guidelines of what to do". Like Agetian said before, I'm also not the man to tell you what to do. But I really want to support you somehow, since I feel that's what you and the whole community needs right now. We are with you, and we are strictly *against* all the sh*t that appeared recently. For us, there is only one RunUO, and we don't care about all those dumb hacks or whatever else. We believe in you and we believe that you'll take the right decision, and lead the community that you built up to an even brighter future of UO Emulation.

Truly yours, Daarn (Alex Dolzhenko), Stavropol, Russia.
-------------------------------------------------------

Well, I hope that was OK that I posted for him...
- Agetian

 

[orpheus]

I don't post on these forums, but I do watch what happens, and I have to say the reason I don't post is because of flamers. ungrateful kids who think they are whatever than anyone else.

before runuo, I lost interest in the game, jumping from server to server, getting pissed off with sphere and how crappy it is. to hear these people may cause this community to shut down, that really makes me unhappy. most of my time is spent working for myself, slaving for a few measily dollars, and when I get frustrated with work I go to RunUO for my fun. I respect all the hard work everyone has put into this project.

I have read alot of what Phantom has to say, and I have to admit I've seen alot of respectable qualities, Truth being the most important one. keep up what you do for these people, even if they don't see what it is you bring to the table.

anyway, what I'm saying is, Ryan and everyone in this community that makes a difference has the support of Me. just some graphic designer with really bad social skills and low esteem.

Subscription only or not, this project is worth my hard earned money.

 

[nexus1g]

I apprecaite what is given to us, not mistake, but I am tired of something too.

I'm tired of hearing admins, both those who run servers and the same here, act surprisedwhen people in the public act stupid.

You have a very idealistic and foolish stance if you really think that dealing with the public on any kind of scale is all puppies and ice cream.

If you don't have a slick back, you're gonna crack. I guarantee it. You're not going to change the public, they're an uncontrollable mass. You as the administrator, must change or burn out.

 

[psz]

But does that mean I should remove his paragon code from my shards? No.

You should remove it since it probably won't be compatible with RC1's already finished Paragon code ;->

 

[Vidi]

psz,

hehe true, but based on all the customiziong Ive done already, Ill have to redo the entire shard before I can let it go live.

which, btw, has always been the one sticking point Ive had with RunUO. But I understand why it has to happen this way. I just wish there was a way to patch the server and then not have to redo all the custom code ( which is impossible of course )

Eventually Ill figure soemthing out. Like maybe a custom namespace where everything can go without interfereing with the distro scripts.

sigh...someday, but not soon. WOW looks too promising.

 

[Phantom]

I just wish there was a way to patch the server and then not have to redo all the custom code ( which is impossible of course )

There is

Called using tools to merge the changes.

There is no reason you cannot have 1000 lines of code, update it, and not have a single item be deleted.

 

[CatLord]

Tools?

Which tools... gimme some details here lol... drop a hint like that and not give up a name lol bad monkey

 

[tejster24]

Try WinMerge, it's how I update my server.

 

[Phantom]

Which tools... gimme some details here lol... drop a hint like that and not give up a name lol bad monkey

Have you even looked?

 

[CatLord]

Honestly

No I hadnt looked... and till you mentioned hadnt thought about it. Thanks for the advice and I will see what I can find

 

[Killamus]

Only problem is with subscrubers... Im a 15 year old teen who is taking computer programing classes at a community collage. I serously doubt (Having many HUGE GAPING SINGED HOLES in my pocked) i could ever get the 50 bucks for my comp... but man if it will get these *1337 h4xx0rz* off RunUO i say YAY! I didn't even know that people messed with runuo... But i guess thats my lack of visting this fourm. I mean ryan if you really think that making people pay 50 bucks is gonna stop em? I gotta say no. People (Like watzt or whatever) WILL pay the 50 bucks get the stuff and *h4xx0r 17*. it won't stop em... But im thinking about getting the 50 bucks for the scripts in the subscriber thing anyways... Cuz im not normally the person to ask for em. I'd like to say before you sterotype my age group, like thousands to millions of people have done before you, i have been playing this game sence ten and i have grown more mature and i never wine. Its the plain and simple way of the younger groups not being able to get cash. And shouldn't you look out for the younger groups? I mean they MAY and probally WILL be the programers of the future.
My 1.43683874235 cents

 

[ASayre]

Asayre,


HAHAHA! That's funny, man ( funny ha ha not funny as an insult. Dont want to be misinterpreted ;-) )

Well, it gives the admins of a shard a way to hand out special items in a way in which the players actually have to earn them over time, not just camp a single monster until it drops. This helps to maintain balance while giving players items they always wish for in real UO. Like portable forges, or bank bells for example.

The fact that you were looking to install a simular system shows that it was a good idea. The fact that you were trying to distance yourself from the system shows your feelings about the systems author. Our feelings about the authors of systems shouldnt ( in my opinion ) bias our feelings about the system itself. For example, Wyatt broke the rules. He was banned and rightly so. His return post as I_am_Back shows his true colors. But does that mean I should remove his paragon code from my shards? No. My players enjoy it, especially with paragons on all facets. So, to remove that code simply because it was written by someone...less than savory, to put it nicely, would injure my players. So it will stay.

I had noting to do with him, it had to do with because something COMPLETELY different had the same name, players would automatically assume it's the 'point system.' Besides, how hard is it to make a new item and add it to loot? ;> Then no horrendous support issues either!

 

[raisor]

After reading a majority of the posts here, I really can not say anything that hasn't already been said. So, I offer this, my opinion.

I have a membership to this community for one reason, supporting RunUO. In light of the information I have read and the types of people that I see day in and day out posting in these forums (as well as on mine), I say make it subscriber only. Sure, this will not only get rid of a majority of the problem makers and riff raff, but also some of the legitimate shard admins who just can't afford to pay the subscription fees but what is stopping them from starting their own RunUO community? Now, I'm not saying they should do like this Wyatt person and the rest of the "Hackers" (term used with clenched teeth for reason not discussable on this forum) out there that want to decompile and steal your code and claim it as their own. What I am saying is learn to create your own scripts, then start a community around those scripts and your shard. I have a small section on my site dedicated to RunUO and I am REALLY surprised to see that I get 100+ hits a day with about 75% of them reffered to my site from RunUO.com.

As far as discontinuation of RunUO development, I have no problem with this either as I understand the incredible amount of time and effort put in to the AWESOME program and community that RunUO has become. I only have one thing to offer in the way of advice. Ignore everyone else's opinions (mine included) and do what makes you happy!

Now, for a message to those that seek to profit from and/or discredit the RunUO community and it's developers, just remember that their are those of us that have ways of "taking care of" these so called "trouble makers" to help support this community. No, this is not a threat of any sort, this is just plain and simple facts of life.

LONG LIVE RUNUO!

 

[Agetian]

I have a really short comment on making RunUO subscriber only. I personally have nothing against it, but I'd like to say that subscriber only mode is likely to have more problems than solutions for them.

1) Making RunUO subscriber only will restrict a whole lot of *normal* people around the world from getting RunUO, and the trouble here lies not in people's greediness, or their "not willing to support the community", or even lack of money - no, it'll be the case because in certain countries the banking systems or credit card systems are not that well developed or are just too expensive to afford for almost any person. This is also the case (at least partially) for Russia. Let's say, in my city I can buy 4 (!) copies of licensed Half-Life 2 DVD (Gold) that was recently released for the same money that I'd spend to open a credit card. Considering our typical salary in Russia, an average person would need to work 2-3 months and then spend all his money to open a credit card, and add to this the subscription cost, and wash it down with the fact that NO ONE will guarantee you here (for 100%) that the transfer will complete successfully - one of my friends got ripped off in a way like that. BTW, it's the same for Internet buying/selling.

2) On the other hand, those people who make troubles might get RunUO anyway, by paying the required cost, and then do the same thing that they would've done if they didn't buy the thing. Troublemakers and dorks of all kinds, as I already said before, exist everywhere and such restrictions won't always work.

3) Moreover, the very idea of adding the subscriber-only access due to some dork causing troubles in the forums sounds like punishing the whole community for the words and/or actions of a single person and a group of his supporters. Therefore, I would expect a new wave of disturbances on the forums (by simple people, who really like, support and respect the project, but who just won't understand what they were "punished" for in such a way).

So, I personally don't condone such an action as subscriber-only access as a response to an activity of a single troublemaker and his supporting company. However, I'd like to say that I don't mind paying for RunUO at all - it's a really great project and I'd donate a certain sum of money for it if I could (physically - see comments above). I just want to say that it shouldn't sound like some sort of a punishment, otherwise it might turn out to be an even bigger strengthening of the problem and not its actual solution.

Of course, this is only my personal opinion and I don't want to offend someone with these words. So, if you disagree, think that I never said anything.

- Agetian

 

[Maynza]

I would find 50 dollars or whatever it is for a life time subscribe if you made it that way as it currently has stood I dont have the money and Im not gonna get a partial subscription Lifetime or None

 

[Phantom]

Just so everyone can stop giving this a reason not to go all subscriber.

This forum costs money, it would be easy to make it only access to subscribers. Nobody could tell us we couldn't do that.

RunUO cannot get into trouble by doing that. Of course then it goes from a donation to a service, somethings might change slightly.

But at the sametime we could lighten up on the rules.

 

[nexus1g]

Phantom, who is the "we" to which you refer? I didn't know you were part of the staff that makes those decisions.

And also, if you ask money for a service, what do you really think you're going to get? The crém de la crém?

No, you'll get what you have now, except they will be saying, "I pay money for this..." And still demand the same things and possibly act a little worse because they feel they are owed more.

Look at OSI servers. It's what I always hear the most on there, "I pay money for this so this is what I deserve," type of attitudes.

I can't say that it won't cut out any of the tripe, but I can say that the tripe that stays will act worse for it and expect more.

 

[Admiral]

Agetian, don't you think that u r trying to sit on two chairs using one ass?
On one side you are talking about "russian dorks like Wyatt" and on other that you can't afford credit card. You are lying about 4 HL DVD's, or maybe you mentioned "licensed by Vasiliy"?? Credit cards are much easier to open, than you said. I personally opened my visa electron about 5 years ago, to pay for my OSI account, same did hundreds of russian OSI players.
You r trying to support Ryan, but don't want to pay for his work, isn't that silly? )

 

[Vidi]

Just out of curiosity...

Download of the RunUO software would still have to be free legally wouldn't it?

I mean I may be completely wrong here, but wouldn't requiring subscription to download the emulator take the step across the line that would set OSI onto RunUO?

I dont know how I feel about it one way or the other. Part of me is dead set against it because paying for a service that can be shut down instantly because someone pissed off Ryan ( no offense but that IS what this thread is about isn't it? )

On the other hand, there's a part of me that thinks subscription only would be whats best for the community as a whole.

Who knows?

Admiral,

I have to comment here. I do support what Ryan has built here. And I am grateful.

But if I have to pay to play, I may as well be playing OSI huh?

I would most likely subscribe if that was required but you see the point right?

 

[Sep102]

Technically, no, requiring a purchase would not be taking a step across the line as in doing so, you're only buying a license to software (RunUO) owned independently of EA. You're not purchasing anything licensed by EA nor does RunUO implement things owned by EA, thus it's not illegal for one to do so. Though you may use things created by and licensed by EA with the RunUO software, the RunUO software itself is completely legal if purchased.

Now, charging money to play on a RunUO shard is a completely different matter entirerly if you're using EA's UO client, as that is an illegal use of privately owned software under EA's license.